D&D 5E High Magic Economy Idea

[Chaosmancer]

So, a few days ago I was watching a video about Dragon Hoards, and I had a thought. Gold is consistently a problem in DnD economies, particularly in terms of beings who have a lot of it. Gold is also fairly worthless. To an extent, all money is. This is why the Nine Hells and Mammon have always struck me as a bit odd. Here is this being that has existed for thousands of years, hoarding gold. He has to have literally more gold than could ever be spent. And part of why I think Yugoloths are silly is this idea that they are working for gold. What does immortal evil want with gold? After so many years, it becomes pointless. Ten Million gold is the same as one gold when you have hundreds of trillions of gold.

So, what if the precious metals, heck what if all metals, had a different purpose.

Part of the inspiration from this came from another little factoid I'd been told about Dragon Hoards. I think the lore came from 3.5 but there was this idea that when a Dragon died of old age, their hoard acted as a magical focus. It allowed them to create a "safe space" for their eggs, and otherwise affect the world. A dragon's hoard was magical. The other part of this came from a few games where they've stated that the coins in the game are made from a specific metal alloy, because that balance of alloys in that amount are perfect for alchemy. Essentially, the coins are standard because only that standard is useful in and of itself.


So, what if we combined these ideas? What if Copper, Silver, Gold and Platinum are solidified magic? We already have the concept that gemstones are used as magical foci, so this has precedence. Why does a Dragon want to hoard precious metals? They are building a collection of magic, either to fuel some aspect of their life or prepare some aspect of their death. Why would an immortal devil care about getting paid in gold? That is literal power you are handing them. Not in terms of "wealth is power" but they can use that gold to perform magical rituals, to fuel infernal engines. Heck, it could literally be that you use the gold to power spells, giving them a "cost" without having the weirdness of "why does this item have to have an objective value for the universe to give me a heroes feast"


But.... here comes the tricky part.

Where does it come from?

Another aspect of DnD gold in general is that there is simply too much of it. There is vast reservoirs of gold that are actually bordering on unrealistic. And if the gold and silver are being consumed to fuel magic, then they have to be replaced, otherwise the world would run out. Especially as dragons are hoarding and using it too.

I definitely think that copper, silver, gold, platinum exchange still makes sense. I was wondering, since Dragons are intensely magical beings, who warp the world around them already, what if they "sweat" gold, or otherwise produce it? Dragon's Blood could be literally gold. And then as they get older, and produce more gold, their hoard increases. I sort of like this.

But then what about copper and silver? Where would it make sense for those to come from. Silver has many "anti-evil" properties. So maybe from celestials? Silver could be a divine metal, coming straight from the heavens.

A second issue, is mining. Mining should still be a thing, but would it work to have gold, silver, and copper, or maybe just one of those, to be "naturally growing" for people to mine? I can see it for gems, but I'm not sure about all metals. And it would be weird to have Dragon's Blood and a Divine Metal also just... randomly appear in the ground.



I know this is a high magic concept, and a lot of people won't like it, but any thoughts on how to make this work? Where would copper come from? How would you try and explain precious metals being literal magic. Do you have any thoughts on uses for it or how it may effect things in the game?

 

[Ancalagon]

"Why would an immortal devil care about getting paid in gold? "

Because there are those who would sell their soul to get said gold

 

[GMMichael]

This is why the Nine Hells and Mammon have always struck me as a bit odd. Here is this being that has existed for thousands of years, hoarding gold. He has to have literally more gold than could ever be spent. And part of why I think Yugoloths are silly is this idea that they are working for gold. What does immortal evil want with gold?

So, what if we combined these ideas? What if Copper, Silver, Gold and Platinum are solidified magic?

Hoarding gold in non-mortal dimensions has a very clear, useful purpose: reducing the overflowing amounts that dragon-hoards seem to produce/contain.

Each of the metals you mention seem to be decent conductors. Flowing electrons create magnetic fields. Magnetic fields have properties that the common folk don't understand... there's your magic.

Where does it come from?

Another aspect of DnD gold in general is that there is simply too much of it. There is vast reservoirs of gold that are actually bordering on unrealistic. And if the gold and silver are being consumed to fuel magic, then they have to be replaced, otherwise the world would run out. Especially as dragons are hoarding and using it too. . .

I know this is a high magic concept, and a lot of people won't like it, but any thoughts on how to make this work? Where would copper come from? How would you try and explain precious metals being literal magic. Do you have any thoughts on uses for it or how it may effect things in the game?

I wouldn't ask where it comes from, because you're already starting with some pretty outlandish assumptions. But you might as well go back to the Yugoloths and Mammon. They have an unlimited supply? Somehow it's finding its way back to the real world.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to my campaign where dragons don't have treasure hoards, but there are definitely some choice weapons lying around their lairs (from earlier attempts at dragon-slaying). And where gold spends most of its time locked in the chests of kings, or around the necks of the lesser lords.

 

[Ancalagon]

Oh, and if money is worthless... have you been charging your PCs living cost? They add up, fast, especially at low levels.

"After 5 weeks of fairly uneventful travel, you arrive at the city of Such and Such. Everyone pay 35 gold"

 

[Tonguez]

And it would be weird to have Dragon's Blood and a Divine Metal also just... randomly appear in the ground.

I know this is a high magic concept, and a lot of people won't like it, but any thoughts on how to make this work? Where would copper come from? How would you try and explain precious metals being literal magic. Do you have any thoughts on uses for it or how it may effect things in the game?

I like it,
You could have the entire world be the egg of a cosmic dragon that has existed from the beginning of time. Unknown to the humanoids now living on the World-Egg the gold and silver they mine is in fact the yoke and albumen of the egg that solidifies when it reaches the surface. Copper comes from the cosmic dragons blood.

Also metals are conductors of magic and as soft metals make for good bedding for a firebreathing dragon

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Oh, and if money is worthless... have you been charging your PCs living cost? They add up, fast, especially at low levels.

"After 5 weeks of fairly uneventful travel, you arrive at the city of Such and Such. Everyone pay 35 gold"

Some game systems had rules like this (eg Shadowrun) but in the main this would annoy PCs in many settings.

 

[Ancalagon]

Some game systems had rules like this (eg Shadowrun) but in the main this would annoy PCs in many settings.

I didn't make those numbers up. This is part of the rules in D&D 5e.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I didn't make those numbers up. This is part of the rules in D&D 5e.

I didn't accuse you of that.

Shadowrun has a purchasable lifestyle cost, which meant you simply deducted that money per month, then looked at your supply of cash and realized you had better get out there and do a job soon.

Games that don't have these easily calculated expenses (like d20 Modern) can get very tedious if you try to track expenses (each meal, gasoline, etc). In D&D PCs tend to buy food but otherwise sleep in a ditch in the woods, probably without even a tent to keep themselves warm. They don't pay for horse feed because they don't have horses. This isn't necessarily because PCs are desperate to avoid paying a few coppers, but keeping track of the tents, meal expenses, etc, would simply take too much time, compared to the time spent buying magic items. (Pathfinder 1e did a good job with "equipment kits" so at least in those games PCs tend to have cooking pots and tents. However if there's an easily calculated monthly expense, per social class, I didn't see it.)

 

[Stormonu]

In the old Council of Wyrms campaigns, dragons couldn’t advance in power without a sufficient hoard. Dragons HAD to collect precious objects and ritualistically add them to their hoard to gain power. Simply being 200 years old didn’t make you, say, an Adult red. You had to have an appropriately powerful hoard to go with it.

Conversely, if said hoard was taken, it could also cost the dragon power! And, at the very least, the dragon couldn’t advance until it recovered or replaced its hoard. There was a whole level of dragon politics centered around stealing/manipulating/ adding to one’s hoard. Council member giving you problems? Target their hoard to reduce their power or isolate them from being able to advance. Need a favor? Gift another dragon a small treasure (not a part of your hoard) so they’ll owe you, or give them a little power push so they become a target, not you.

 

[Ancalagon]

I didn't accuse you of that.

Shadowrun has a purchasable lifestyle cost, which meant you simply deducted that money per month, then looked at your supply of cash and realized you had better get out there and do a job soon.

Games that don't have these easily calculated expenses (like d20 Modern) can get very tedious if you try to track expenses (each meal, gasoline, etc). In D&D PCs tend to buy food but otherwise sleep in a ditch in the woods, probably without even a tent to keep themselves warm. They don't pay for horse feed because they don't have horses. This isn't necessarily because PCs are desperate to avoid paying a few coppers, but keeping track of the tents, meal expenses, etc, would simply take too much time, compared to the time spent buying magic items. (Pathfinder 1e did a good job with "equipment kits" so at least in those games PCs tend to have cooking pots and tents. However if there's an easily calculated monthly expense, per social class, I didn't see it.)

5e has that. It's a daily value instead of monthly, but that's trivial. It's based on your lifestyle:

1 sp = destitute
2 sp = poor
1 gp = modest
2 gp = comfortable
4 gp = wealthy
10+ gp = aristocratic

Many PCs will go for modest, so one GP/day.