D&D (2024) Magic Item Crafting oddities

So, which Item Crafting system is better: 5E 2024 or Tales of the Valiant?
The 5E 2024 crafting system is basically the XGE crafting system we've seen for a while, and it relies on really bad item prices and rarities. Ignoring that, it's basic and there's little thought to a reward economy. Functional, but the DM needs to intervene a lot.

ToV has unique values for each magic item (though at 50,000 gp for a vorpal sword, seems low - check your treasure award expectations!) The magic item crafting rules are in the GMG. Cost is not half the sale price (very good!) and takes 1/2/10/25/50 weeks depending on rarity, but (Arcana) checks are made each week to see how much progress you make, and that can come down significantly.

While not perfect, I prefer what's in ToV.

Cheers!
 

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I don't particularly like crafting.

In general, the core gameplay loop of the game is to go on an adventure. Adventures is where the gameplay is. As a result, the game should, to an almost unreasonable and certainly unrealistic degree, funnel the PCs into going on adventures. You want to save the world? Go on an adventure. Want to help your friends? Go on an adventure. Want to be powerful? Adventure. Famous? Adventure. Rich? Adventure. The default solution to all problems that the PCs face in D&D should be: Go. On. An. Adventure.

This is a big part of the reason why, in spite of the fact that gold is often a reward, that gold sucks. Buying things is not much of an adventure, and buying things off a chart in a book even less so. So beyond some relatively minor upgrades in armor, you generally can't turn gold directly into character power in the game. It's intentional. The things the PCs want might exist in towns, but they're readily available in dungeons or in the wilderness. Because, again, that's the game. 3e tried to make rewards more or less fungible, but it didn't really work because there are some magic items that are just much better than others and pricing items out is really hard.

So, I don't like it when the PCs start buying things like they're buying lunch at McDonald's. There are things that I think are fine like that. Mundane or silver weapons and armor. Healing potions. Scrolls or other consumables to a limited extent. But I don't think that PCs should be able to just walk into town and buy things more complex than that in general with just gold. The materials to make them aren't readily available.

All that is to say that it doesn't really bother me that there's nothing to do with gold in the game. I don't think the game needs to have gold sinks added to it. I don't think letting the PCs have extreme wealth is bad when to get anything done they still have to go on adventures. I think, "You've got more than enough gold to retire on," is perfectly fine.
 

In general, the core gameplay loop of the game is to go on an adventure. Adventures is where the gameplay is. As a result, the game should, to an almost unreasonable and certainly unrealistic degree, funnel the PCs into going on adventures. You want to save the world? Go on an adventure. Want to help your friends? Go on an adventure. Want to be powerful? Adventure. Famous? Adventure. Rich? Adventure. The default solution to all problems that the PCs face in D&D should be: Go. On. An. Adventure.
I get that this is all your opinion and that's fine if you don't enjoy crafting or buying magical items, but I really don't understand your logic that crafting/buying magical items is somehow not "core gameplay".

Want to save the world, help your friends, be powerful and famous? You know what sure helps a ton with that? Crafting and buying magic items! That's about as "core gameplay loop" as you can possibly get. Luckily for me, WotC (and most 3pp creators) disagree with you, and the game is moving in another direction
 

I get that this is all your opinion and that's fine if you don't enjoy crafting or buying magical items, but I really don't understand your logic that crafting/buying magical items is somehow not "core gameplay".

Want to save the world, help your friends, be powerful and famous? You know what sure helps a ton with that? Crafting and buying magic items! That's about as "core gameplay loop" as you can possibly get. Luckily for me, WotC (and most 3pp creators) disagree with you, and the game is moving in another direction
agree.

while I would like to see less number bloat with magic items and more cool features from them, very good decision that 5e cut 4e +6 item bonus to only +3. that lessened the number treadmill, I want to see good price system for magic items.

like, expected wealth per level and how that translates to amount and power of magic items available.

all magic items with attunement can come with minimum level requirement so you cannot access them too early, so you cannot break game math.

and with supply and demand it's simple. if an item can be crafted and materials are available, there is a price tag on it.

availability might be an issue, but given time, ALL magic items(except unique artifacts) should be for sale.
 

In general, the core gameplay loop of the game is to go on an adventure. Adventures is where the gameplay is. As a result, the game should, to an almost unreasonable and certainly unrealistic degree, funnel the PCs into going on adventures. You want to save the world? Go on an adventure. Want to help your friends? Go on an adventure. Want to be powerful? Adventure. Famous? Adventure. Rich? Adventure. The default solution to all problems that the PCs face in D&D should be: Go. On. An. Adventure.
adventure is to kill monsters to get their stuff so you can go on to kill stronger monsters to get better stuff, to go on kill even stronger monsters, to get even better stuff.
 

Yes, 5e was never designed for buying and selling or crafting magic items so the simple rules they added on top are terrible.

Consider that an enspelled weapon of Shield costs 200gp and let's the user cast Shield 6 times per day.

A 5th level party could have 2 of those for every party member which effectively increases all of their AC by 5 as they can each cast it 12 times per long rest.
 


I get that this is all your opinion and that's fine if you don't enjoy crafting or buying magical items, but I really don't understand your logic that crafting/buying magical items is somehow not "core gameplay".

Want to save the world, help your friends, be powerful and famous? You know what sure helps a ton with that? Crafting and buying magic items! That's about as "core gameplay loop" as you can possibly get. Luckily for me, WotC (and most 3pp creators) disagree with you, and the game is moving in another direction
Merely because a rule exists in the book, and merely because it happens sometimes in your game, does not mean that that is what the game is about.
 

Merely because a rule exists in the book, and merely because it happens sometimes in your game, does not mean that that is what the game is about.
Yeah I guess we just disagree on what the game is all about, and that's totally fine for different tables to play different styles, but I don't think you're the one who gets to decide unilaterally what the game is about.

Crafting is an integral part of DnD and to me it just wouldn't be Dungeons and Dragons if you removed crafting and especially if you also removed buying magic items. I've never played that way and wouldn't ever want to
 

Yes, 5e was never designed for buying and selling or crafting magic items so the simple rules they added on top are terrible.

Consider that an enspelled weapon of Shield costs 200gp and let's the user cast Shield 6 times per day.

A 5th level party could have 2 of those for every party member which effectively increases all of their AC by 5 as they can each cast it 12 times per long rest.
It's the way 2024 doubled down on the poor rules that really annoys me.

(Meanwhile, I'm seeing other products trying to give a MUCH better view of crafting).
 

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