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D&D (2024) replacing Constitution with Energy

le Redoutable

Ich bin El Glouglou :)
Welcome to the boards. I seem to understand what you are explaining as similar to Magic, the Gathering with the 5 colors and combining 2 of them to get a class. A necromance can be black and red, while a druid is green and white or something. But you are using the D&D stats for this. Seems like it can work.
what are the colors used in Magic ?

and apparently there are 10 combos available ?

Black
Blue
Green
Red
Yellow
?

if so, perhaps
Black ===> Necromancers
Blue ===> Bards
Green ===> Druids
Red ====> Magic-Users
Yellow ==> Illusionists
 

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le Redoutable

Ich bin El Glouglou :)
I pieced that together - but I question if that is actually good game designs. It always ends up with some of the classes feeling kinda ... forced. A lot of the suggestions of the OP seemed like this - like clerics being "like necromancers" or wanting to merge assassins and necromancers for some reason.
bof! I'm a nostalgic from 1st Ed AD&D;
I've been peaufining my system for a long time, with a maximum fidelity to 1st Ed
(like Monks using Dex + Wis, Illusionists using Int + Dex etc well that was another time ;)
now my system is complete and I can make money with it :)
 



Yaarel

He-Mage
I pieced that together - but I question if that is actually good game designs. It always ends up with some of the classes feeling kinda ... forced. A lot of the suggestions of the OP seemed like this - like clerics being "like necromancers" or wanting to merge assassins and necromancers for some reason.
Yeah. The symmetry can help a designer notice a possibility that wasnt considered earlier. But it gets in the way when becoming forced.

Also, the symmetry depends on how useful the components of it are in the first place.

For example, D&D and many derivatives of D&D, completely rely on the six abilities. But these six merit critique, in the first place.

For example, Wisdom began as a narrative concept, "being wise", but in practice, this concept has poor mechanical application. Where use is meaning, Wisdom now means exactly, the five senses in a way that animals tend to be good at, or else willpower to resist mental attacks. Defacto, this ability is incoherent at best. Personally, I would just give Perception to Intelligence, and give willpower to Charisma. And be done. There is no reason for "wisdom" to exist as an ability. The Cleric is a spiritual leader and inspires and is inspired by other persons, thus is Charisma. The Druid understands nature, thus is Intelligence. We only need two mental scores, and there is no loss of information. Likewise, the three physical abilities lack an ability that simply does athletic stunts. It gets disruptively and implausibly dislocated, as if people who know how to jump are unable to tumble, and people who know how to climb are unable to know how to catch oneself from a fall. The current six abilities, both the three mental and the three physical, feel off. Like a rickety car engine that is making worrying noises.
 
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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Yeah. The symmetry can help a designer notice a possibility that wasnt considered earlier. But it gets in the way when becoming forced.

Also, the symmetry depends on how useful the components of it are in the first place.

For example, D&D and many derivatives of D&D, completely rely on the six abilities. But these six merit critique, in the first place.

For example, Wisdom began as a narrative concept, "being wise", but in practice, this concept has poor mechanical application. Where use is meaning, Wisdom now means exactly, the five senses in a way that animals tend to be good at, or else willpower to resist mental attacks. Defacto, this ability is incoherent at best. Personally, I would just give Perception to Intelligence, and give willpower to Charisma. And be done. There is no reason for "wisdom" to exist as an ability. The Cleric is a spiritual leader and inspires and is inspired by other persons, thus is Charisma. The Druid understands nature, thus is Intelligence. We only need two mental scores, and there is no loss of information. Likewise, the three physical abilities lack an ability that simply does athletic stunts. It gets disruptively and implausibly dislocated, as if people who know how to jump are unable to tumble, and people who know how to climb are unable to know how to catch oneself from a fall. The current six abilities, both the three mental and the three physical, feel off. Like a rickety car engine that is making worrying noises.

I completely agree on you about symmetry pointing out possibilities, but that it should also not be forced. An elegant design doesn't mean it is fun, or evocative.

I also agree that the 6 ability scores are... curious at time, and there is this realm of athleticism there both dexterity and strength unite. However, wisdom is not the same as intelligence or charisma. You are not the first nor the last to claim it isn't real. I will concede however that it's never been entirely coherently used.

Interestingly, in the GLOG initiative is based on wisdom...
 

Yaarel

He-Mage
However, wisdom is not the same as intelligence or charisma. You are not the first nor the last to claim it isn't real. I will concede however that it's never been entirely coherently used.
Of course, in reallife "wisdom" (expertise, sageness, etcetera) has to do with internalizing knowledge and applying it intuitively and effectively.

But this concept doesnt seem to translate well into dice rolling.

A gaming ability needs to apply to the mechanics that players actually roll during the game.

Meanwhile, the redundancy between the Wis skills and Int skills − Perception≈Investigation, Survival≈Nature, and so on − show how redundant the mechanical Wisdom ability is.

Personally, I always use "Intelligence (Investigation)" checks to determine if a character can intuitively discern knowledge. Reallife knowledge is intuitive. (Compare the Myers-Brigg temperament inventory, for "NT", "Intuitive Thinking", meaning logic, rationality, and discernment.)

But for people skills, I always use Charisma.

For me, the game becomes clearer when deleting Wisdom from the game.



Interestingly, in the GLOG initiative is based on wisdom...
Heh, because "Wisdom" equals sensory Perception. So of course a deer or a bat is "wiser" and gets a good initiative score to run away. The animal can hear the threat coming! So wise!
 
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le Redoutable

Ich bin El Glouglou :)
Of course, in reallife "wisdom" (expertise, sageness, etcetera) has to do with internalizing knowledge and applying it intuitively and effectively.

But this concept doesnt seem to translate well into dice rolling.

A gaming ability needs to apply to the mechanics that players actually roll during the game.

Meanwhile, the redundancy between the Wis skills and Int skills − Perception≈Investigation, Survival≈Nature, and so on − show how redundant the mechanical Wisdom ability is.

Personally, I always use "Intelligence (Investigation)" checks to determine if a character can intuitively discern knowledge. Reallife knowledge is intuitive. (Compare the Myers-Brigg temperament inventory, for "NT", "Intuitive Thinking", meaning logic, rationality, and discernment.)

But for people skills, I always use Charisma.

For me, the game becomes clearer when deleting Wisdom from the game.




Heh, because "Wisdom" equals sensory Perception. So of course a deer or a bat is "wiser" and gets a good initiative score to run away. The animal can hear the threat coming! So wise!
...
and Wis could get renamed to Empathy :)
 

le Redoutable

Ich bin El Glouglou :)
Ok... But what are you doing? Why are you posting this here?

edit: this sounds a bit harsh. I'm not implying that you shouldn't be posting. Rather, I'm wondering as to what you are trying to achieve with these posts.
ben... I just don't know how and who get contact with, for Business involvement ...
 

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