D&D 5E How much is 1.000.000 GP?

[SgtEpicFail]

Question speaks for itself but for some background:
Im creating a oneshot in which Mammon (Archfiend of greed) has tricked a dwarven lord into accepting a deal that reads: "your mines will have undepletable riches for 201 generations at the cost of 1% of the total wealth gathered + a fee of 1M GP per generation". Obviously, the Dwarven lord figured that since dwarves live 350+ years, obtaining 1m GP in a generation seemed easy enough. But Mammon didnt specify that it were dwarven generations, and took ants as his generation-benchmark creatures. so now after about 201 years he comes to collect and obviously the dwarves are f****d. so the PC's (its a high level oneshot) are about to ruin Mammon's day.
The dwarven city is home to about 15k residents

I just have no real concept of how much wealth can be obtained from an endless mine in 201 years. Would the dwarves be doomed? or would they be like "you lied but here is your 201m GP and now piss off?" I at least want my oneshot to be somewhat believable...

 

[Maxperson]

Question speaks for itself but for some background:
Im creating a oneshot in which Mammon (Archfiend of greed) has tricked a dwarven lord into accepting a deal that reads: "your mines will have undepletable riches for 201 generations at the cost of 1% of the total wealth gathered + a fee of 1M GP per generation". Obviously, the Dwarven lord figured that since dwarves live 350+ years, obtaining 1m GP in a generation seemed easy enough. But Mammon didnt specify that it were dwarven generations, and took ants as his generation-benchmark creatures. so now after about 201 years he comes to collect and obviously the dwarves are f****d. so the PC's (its a high level oneshot) are about to ruin Mammon's day.

I just have no real concept of how much wealth can be obtained from an endless mine in 201 years. Would the dwarves be doomed? or would they be like "you lied but here is your 201m GP and now piss off?" I at least want my oneshot to be somewhat believable...

How many dwarves are there?

 

[SgtEpicFail]

How many dwarves are there?

about 15k I was thinking

 

[MarkB]

Even if their mines are inexhaustible, they're presumably not just going to be taking that gold, milling it into coins, and then sticking it in a massive Scrooge McDuck vault. They're going to spend it.

So the question is what they're spending it on. If they're reinvesting it into their mining operations, then they can easily have expanded to the point where they might have that amount sitting around as petty cash. But if they've invested elsewhere, they won't have it as liquid assets.

Of course, they might have invested it in the finest armies and wizards in the world, and be ready and able to kick Mammon's ass if he comes back with his "ant generations" BS.

 

[SgtEpicFail]

Even if their mines are inexhaustible, they're presumably not just going to be taking that gold, milling it into coins, and then sticking it in a massive Scrooge McDuck vault. They're going to spend it.

So the question is what they're spending it on. If they're reinvesting it into their mining operations, then they can easily have expanded to the point where they might have that amount sitting around as petty cash. But if they've invested elsewhere, they won't have it as liquid assets.

Of course, they might have invested it in the finest armies and wizards in the world, and be ready and able to kick Mammon's ass if he comes back with his "ant generations" BS.

Thats a good point. The dwarves obviously figured they had eons of time to build up a stash of say 500m GP so they wouldnt have bothered saving in the first couple of years. I can use that to explain why they don't have that lying around.

As for the army idea: Ofc the dwarven armies are exceptionally well-equipped and are the best standing army on the continent (i plan on giving the players reinforcements depending on the route they take). But since mammon figured he would like to have the city and its wealth for himself, he isnt just going to show up alone and against an onslaught of the armies of hell the elite but relatively small dwarven army does not stand a chance.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Question speaks for itself but for some background:
Im creating a oneshot in which Mammon (Archfiend of greed) has tricked a dwarven lord into accepting a deal that reads: "your mines will have undepletable riches for 201 generations at the cost of 1% of the total wealth gathered + a fee of 1M GP per generation". Obviously, the Dwarven lord figured that since dwarves live 350+ years, obtaining 1m GP in a generation seemed easy enough. But Mammon didnt specify that it were dwarven generations, and took ants as his generation-benchmark creatures. so now after about 201 years he comes to collect and obviously the dwarves are f****d. so the PC's (its a high level oneshot) are about to ruin Mammon's day.
The dwarven city is home to about 15k residents

I just have no real concept of how much wealth can be obtained from an endless mine in 201 years. Would the dwarves be doomed? or would they be like "you lied but here is your 201m GP and now piss off?" I at least want my oneshot to be somewhat believable...

I guess your dwarves would be doomed. Which is, I think, more fun. The heroes would be more heroic if they helped a dwarven lord to weasel out of his agreement if the price for not paying the agreed upon amount is to put the city into Hell, Elturel style, including the innocent subjects of the local lord rather than helping avoid a 3,74% increase of the greedy dwarven lord's yearly budget.

To put things into perspective, 50 gp weighs one pound by RAW and are valued as such (you can buy one pound of pure gold for 50 gp). So, 201 millions gp weighs 4.02 millions pounds (thanks @Dioltach for noticing the division error) or 1,820 tons of gold. Compared to the 750,000 pounds of gold during the California Gold Rush, admittedly over a much shorter period but with much more people, or to the Dacian mines of the Roman Empire which were thought to have provided 500 tons of gold over two centuries. The total gold in circulation in Europe pre-1492 is estimated between 10,000 and 15,000 tons IIRC. The amount asked is ten time the total amount of gold brought to Europe from South America by Spain Spanish Colonization Trivia and this amount was enough to have a significant impact over the economy...

Edit: here is a reference for of one estimate of medieval gold amount : How much gold is there in the world? at 12,780 tons

 

[MarkB]

Thats a good point. The dwarves obviously figured they had eons of time to build up a stash of say 500m GP so they wouldnt have bothered saving in the first couple of years. I can use that to explain why they don't have that lying around.

As for the army idea: Ofc the dwarven armies are exceptionally well-equipped and are the best standing army on the continent (i plan on giving the players reinforcements depending on the route they take). But since mammon figured he would like to have the city and its wealth for himself, he isnt just going to show up alone and against an onslaught of the armies of hell the elite but relatively small dwarven army does not stand a chance.

And, of course "the dwarves hired the finest wizards in the land" may just equate to "they hired the PCs, now it's up to you guys to figure it out."

 

[Ixal]

The dwarves can lawyer back and make their gold pieces really small (a grain).

But yeah, without knowing how big the gold pieces are (or rather, how much material in tons needed to be extracted) its rather hard to say.

 

[Dioltach]

To put things into perspective, 50 gp weighs one pound by RAW. So, 201 millions gp weighs 40,2 millions pounds or 18,200 tons of gold. Compared to the 750,000 pounds of gold during the California Gold Rush, admittedly over a much shorter period but with much more people, or to the Dacian mines of the Roman Empire which were thought to have provided 500 tons of gold over two centuries. The total gold in circulation in Europe pre-1492 is estimated between 10,000 and 15,000 tons IIRC.

Slight quibble: if 50gp is one pound, then 201 million gp is 4.02 million pounds.

Your argument still stands, though.

 

[le Redoutable]

1 Milllion GP ?
it's Half of my fortune that I lost during the War of Rwanda !