Sean K. Reynolds talks RPG salaries, puts his on record.

[Campbell]

I recommend most people acquire a better understanding of types of markets and the fundamentals of market design. Most layman are pretty familiar with how commodity markets work (where one product is a substitute for another), but most of us have limited understanding of matching markets (where products are not substitutes and matching the right buyer with the right seller/product is a nontrivial problem.

This book from Nobel laureate Alvin E. Roth is a pretty good place to get started.

Who Gets What — And Why: The New Economics of Matchmaking and Market Design Reprint, Roth, Alvin E. - Amazon.com

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[S'mon]

Even if you are in the top 5% of wage earners, you see about a doubling of your income over the span. Only the very top end of wage-earners see a 10x rise over their careers.

I'm an academic on a national-set pay scale, I have gone from £24K to £57K in 20 years 2000-2020, no inflation adjustment. That seems pretty typical; people who get promoted to senior ranks will get a bit more, but mostly not a huge amount more. So x2 in 40 years adjusting for inflation sounds about right, but could be closer to x3. I hope!

 

[S'mon]

That's not true. For unskilled and low-skilled labor, and those who choose either mediocre career fields, or are poor performers, sure, a 10x increase is unlikely.

Over the course of my career I exceeded the 10x span.

Yes, but you're not typical. Most career fields are very 'mediocre' by your x10 standard.

 

[RangerWickett]

If game designers aren't earning a living wage, then the proper action is for them to form a union, and to use their collective leverage to force distributors and retailers to not work with publishers that are paying a non-living wage. This would be really difficult, of course, because the industry is fairly small and scattered geographically, and so much of it is done by freelancers, and there are a lot of people doing self-publishing.

Like, if your options were "pay $90 for a Player's Handbook that you know will pay a good salary to the writers, editors, and artists so they can survive in Seattle" or "pay $30 for a self-published game with cheaper art that's only available online," would people buy the 'union-made' book? Is it a feasible effort when, like, so many people in so many industries aren't getting raises?

 

[S'mon]

If game designers aren't earning a living wage, then the proper action is for them to form a union, and to use their collective leverage to force distributors and retailers to not work with publishers that are paying a non-living wage. This would be really difficult, of course, because the industry is fairly small and scattered geographically, and so much of it is done by freelancers, and there are a lot of people doing self-publishing.

Like, if your options were "pay $90 for a Player's Handbook that you know will pay a good salary to the writers, editors, and artists so they can survive in Seattle" or "pay $30 for a self-published game with cheaper art that's only available online," would people buy the 'union-made' book? Is it a feasible effort when, like, so many people in so many industries aren't getting raises?

I'd rather they all moved to Austin TX, got paid enough to marry and raise kids, and gave me a $60 game.

 

[payn]

If a union formed, companies would likely go pure freelance and/or contractor to not have to deal with it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If a union formed, companies would likely go pure freelance and/or contractor to not have to deal with it.

Depends on the union, right? Some unions you have to deal with because they're on the climb, they're movin' up, they're gonna race, they're gonna break through the borderline ....


Lizard people. They are EVERYWHERE!

 

[dragoner]

*raises eyebrow

 

[Jd Smith1]

If game designers aren't earning a living wage, then the proper action is for them to form a union, and to use their collective leverage to force distributors and retailers to not work with publishers that are paying a non-living wage. This would be really difficult, of course, because the industry is fairly small and scattered geographically, and so much of it is done by freelancers, and there are a lot of people doing self-publishing.

Like, if your options were "pay $90 for a Player's Handbook that you know will pay a good salary to the writers, editors, and artists so they can survive in Seattle" or "pay $30 for a self-published game with cheaper art that's only available online," would people buy the 'union-made' book? Is it a feasible effort when, like, so many people in so many industries aren't getting raises?

Interesting. Hollywood writers have unionized. Of course, there's a huge amount of money to work with in that industry.

As to the second part, I remember back in the 70s when the textile unions bought TV ads with workers singing 'Look for the union label'.
The US textile industry, and the unions, are largely gone. Myself, I wouldn't pay $90 for an RPG book. Or $50. Not that I couldn't afford it, but I simply wouldn't.

You know, a positive step in this entire process would be a serious attempt to poll RPG buyers to ascertain both financial resources and ROG hobby budgets. If you had an idea of the depths of the 'cash lake', it would shed a lot of light on the viability of options.

 

[S'mon]

What income should a rpg designer make?

Less than me (hey, a PhD in commercial Law has to be worth something...) but more than they are actually making, at least at the big companies. WoTC and Hasbro pay their staff designers ridiculously low amounts (even when Paizo was the market leader) and the result is a lot of cruddy, mediocre product. A bit less 'pay peanuts-get monkeys' would be affordable, certainly for WoTC. WoTC should be able to compete with the smaller videogame design studios for talent, if not on salary then at least on the whole package. As it is, either you get guys who are quite talented but working for peanuts out of love for RPGs, or guys who love RPGs but aren't very talented. I remember reading (a long while back) a post from Monte Cook about his life as a WoTC employee, I don't recall the pay he mentioned but it seemed horrifyingly low for one of 3e's lead designers. That's without starting on the whole "Christmas firings" culture.