D&D General Thaco the angry clown... really?

[overgeeked]

That isn't what punching up or down means.

Punching down is attacking someone with less power than you. Who has more power in the RPG community: the writers of official D&D modules or old grogs ranting at clouds with basically zero platform? The grogs, obviously. So, if the writers of official D&D modules attack the old grogs...that's punching down.

 

[Mort]

Ahhh....noooo. It's not punching up. At all. It's punching down. The writers are in a privileged position that none of the gatekeeping grogs they're punching have. Those gatekeeping grogs don't have a platform akin to official D&D modules that go out to millions of people, much less one that surpasses it. That's the definition of punching down. I don't think it's punching at all, but if it is punching, it's definitely down. Some punching down is acceptable, like messing with a heckler at a stand-up comedy show. If this is punching at all, it's that kind of punching. The gatekeeping grogs taking it upon themselves to try to stop the game from changing or denying newer fans a place. If this is anything, this is the writers stepping in and telling the geezers to cool it and that the kids are all right.

The "gate keeping Grogs..." as you term them, are not in any kind of position of inferiority as to the writers, not really - so it's punching up or laterally at the most.

But rather than get into a definition fest. It's not harmful to the old guard, regardless - at the absolute most it could be seen as a (really) mild insult.

 

[overgeeked]

The "gate keeping Grogs..." as you term them, are not in any kind of position of inferiority as to the writers, not really - so it's punching up or laterally at the most.

But rather than get into a definition fest. It's not harmful to the old guard, regardless - at the absolute most it could be seen as a (really) mild insult.

So you think the old grogs are in a similar position of power (within this micro community) as the writers on staff at Wizards of the Coast? Okay. That's certainly a take. Can't imagine how you got there, but whatevs.

 

[ad_hoc]

Punching down is attacking someone with less power than you. Who has more power in the RPG community: the writers of official D&D modules or old grogs ranting at clouds with basically zero platform? The grogs, obviously. So, if the writers of official D&D modules attack the old grogs...that's punching down.

Punching down is not someone with a platform attacking someone without a platform.

Old grogs are predominately wealthy older white men who defend the racist and misogynistic origins of the game in the name of tradition.

Before anyone starts, 'not all men' etc.

If you think this is an attack on you then you're telling on yourself.

 

[J.Quondam]

Ahhh....noooo. It's not punching up. At all. It's punching down. The writers are in a privileged position that none of the gatekeeping grogs they're punching have. Those gatekeeping grogs don't have a platform akin to official D&D modules that go out to millions of people, much less one that surpasses it. That's the definition of punching down. I don't think it's punching at all, but if it is punching, it's definitely down. Some punching down is acceptable, like messing with a heckler at a stand-up comedy show. If this is punching at all, it's that kind of punching. The gatekeeping grogs taking it upon themselves to try to stop the game from changing or denying newer fans a place. If this is anything, this is the writers stepping in and telling the geezers to cool it and that the kids are all right.

Nah, if it's anything, it's punching up. Recall that for the most part, grognards are aging middle-class white guys who have -- and have always had-- the luxury of time (and usually also money) to waste on RPGs, as well as a secure environment and similar people to spend that hobby with. These grognards typically are not ground down by relentless poverty or abuse or discrimination. And while some of them may well have been picked on as kids, they now enjoy life in a society that has not only accepts overt "nerdiness" and pointless leisure, but even celebrates it.

This isn't blackface or chainmail bikinis or something. Most of the people "offended" by this are neither truly harmed, nor even truly offended. For most of these complainers, IMO, this a fake "internet controversy." And I mean that literally: if this Thaco the Clown had appeared in a book in an era without Twitter, exactly no grognard would have given it a second thought beyond a slight scowl or a quiet chuckle, depending. If they noticed it at all.

 

[overgeeked]

Punching down is not someone with a platform attacking someone without a platform.

Which is why I said power. Who has more power the old grogs or WotC?

Old grogs are predominately wealthy older white men who defend the racist and misogynistic origins of the game in the name of tradition.

A lot of them, yes. Unfortunately.

If you think this is an attack on you then you're telling on yourself.

Check my posts in the thread. I think it's hilarious. I'm just objecting to the idea that the staff writers at Wizards of the Coast, the 800lbs gorilla of the gaming community, are somehow in a position of less power than the old grogs.

 

[darjr]

Thaco is 2nd edition. Not 1st or OD&D. The grogs they are making fun of are also themselves. The older grogs would not be thaco folks.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

That isn't what punching up or down means.

It actually is what punching up or down means. Textbook example. What do you mean?

 

[Olrox17]

That’s hilarious. Definitely using that. Thanks.

In hindsight, if they had created (or will create, from now on) a series of humorous caricatures of different "generation" of gamers, from the oldskool grognard, to the third edition munchkin, to the 4e wargamer, to the 5e noob obsessed with politically correctness, I'd be totally ok with that

 

[overgeeked]

Nah, if it's anything, it's punching up.

Then people don't know what the phrase means. Punching down is attacking or making fun of someone with less power than you. You are in a "superior position" relative to the person you're attacking, hence punching down. Punching up is attacking or making fun of someone with more power than you. You are in an "inferior position" relative to the person you're attacking, hence punching up.

In no way do the old grogs have more power than the multi-billion dollar a year company putting out this module that lightly pokes fun at old gatekeeping grogs.

Recall that for the most part, grognards are aging middle-class white guys who have -- and have always had-- the luxury of time (and usually also money) to waste on RPGs, as well as a secure environment and similar people to spend that hobby with. These grognards typically are not ground down by relentless poverty or abuse or discrimination. And while some of them may well have been picked on as kids, they now enjoy life in a society that has not only accepts overt "nerdiness" and pointless leisure, but even celebrates it.

Exactly like the aging middle-class white guys who're writing the module. So what's the difference? The grogs aren't writing the module that goes out to millions for the 800lbs gorilla of the gaming community. So the power imbalance is decidedly in favor of the module writers.

This isn't blackface or chainmail bikinis or something. Most of the people "offended" by this are neither truly harmed, nor even truly offended. For most of these complainers, IMO, this a fake "internet controversy." And I mean that literally: if this Thaco the Clown had appeared in a book in an era without Twitter, exactly no grognard would have given it a second thought beyond a slight scowl or a quiet chuckle, depending. If they noticed it at all.

I completely agree. I'm glad WotC did it. It's funny as hell.