Pathfinder 2E Paizo drops use of the word phylactery

[TheSword]

No, it's not. Like, this is the opposite of perfect and exactly what you want to avoid: simply taking a word because "it sounds cool" without actually taking the context of what it is used for or what it is. Talking about "how all phylacteries aren't tefflin" misses that it's the first and primary definition of the word and how it is used in real life, given that the previous general usage has basically completely falling off for the specific usage.

That’s not the reason at all. It’s not just because the word sounds cool. It’s because it’s meaning both ancient and contemporary fits the item in game. A container for ritual words, that is a magic charm, that is also a protection. Plus it sounds cool. Naming conventions where something sounds good AND is relevant to the thing described. Is good.

No, this comparison doesn't work because "shawl" didn't start as a translation for a specific Jewish tradition. If shawl was used in this way as phylactery is, then yes it would be problematic. But it's not, which is why this is a useless comparison.

The word Phylactey didnt start as a translation. It was a word in its own right first. Not that it makes a massive difference.

 

[Argyle King]

No, it's not. Like, this is the opposite of perfect and exactly what you want to avoid: simply taking a word because "it sounds cool" without actually taking the context of what it is used for or what it is. Talking about "how all phylacteries aren't tefflin" misses that it's the first and primary definition of the word and how it is used in real life, given that the previous general usage has basically completely falling off for the specific usage.



No, this comparison doesn't work because "shawl" didn't start as a translation for a specific Jewish tradition. If shawl was used in this way as phylactery is, then yes it would be problematic. But it's not, which is why this is a useless comparison.


...

I'm sorry, a container that is literally meant to carry the body of Christ for Communion. It's a far more direct comparison to what a lich is storing than spiritual texts.

Also, these sorts of very vague connections are exactly the wrong sort of justification when you are taking a very specific ethnic or religious item. The vague idea of "It's a box that holds something important" is more of a justification for calling it a SoulSafe©. If you are going to use a word like this, it should be a specific and deliberate reference to what the item is, rather than trying to create a grab-bag justification because the word seems exotic.

"Tabernacle" is also a building.

As far as the other stuff you said, none of sounding exotic or whatever is part of what I've said.

One of the parts of what I actually did say earlier is that I find it odd to live in a time when it's sometimes okay to say that words can be used in different ways (for new concepts) and sometimes it isn't okay to say that words can be used in different ways.

Thank you for the artistic exasperation. That's a good example to illustrate part of what I meant.

 

[Justice and Rule]

That’s not the reason at all. It’s not just because the word sounds cool. It’s because it’s meaning both ancient and contemporary fits the item in game. A container for ritual words, that is a magic charm, that is also a protection. Plus it sounds cool. Naming conventions where something sounds good AND is relevant to the thing described. Is good.

I mean, I don't think it fits the archaic meaning and I find it kind of desperate to try to. A phylactery is a soul container, which was initially described in Dragon as a jar; it's not really a "protective charm" or "amulet" as much as a hiding place, like from the tale of Koschei. This whole discourse is trying to backfit something that Gygax didn't explain and got muddled when others ended up having to do it.

The word Phylactey didnt start as a translation. It was a word in its own right first. Not that it makes a massive difference.

Where a word starts is generally less important than where it currently is.

"Tabernacle" is also a building.

But for non-Protestant Christians, it's a box that carries the body of Christ.

As far as the other stuff you said, none of sounding exotic or whatever is part of what I've said.

One of the parts of what I actually did say earlier is that I find it odd to live in a time when it's sometimes okay to say that words can be used in different ways (for new concepts) and sometimes it isn't okay to say that words can be used in different ways.

I mean, that's how context works: when you put words in a certain context, they take on different meanings. Using a name that is most commonly used for a religious item as the evil focus of a lich? That's not a great context.

 

[Greg K]

And yet, no one does.

Wrong. Many Native Americans consider what happened to them to be a Holocaust. Many Armenians consider refer to their genocide as the Armenian Holocaust (and within the past few years ago, I read an article about some Jewish-Americans being upset about another group describing their own genocide as a Holocaust. I am almost certain it was the Armenians, but I may be wrong).

Native Americans
National American Indian Holocaust Museum

Native American Genocide or Holocaust?

To this day, some people dispute whether the Native American genocide committed by the U.S. ought to be called "genocide."

indiancountrytoday.com

The American Indian Holocaust: healing historical unresolved grief - PubMed

Armenians

The Armenian Holocaust: The Rise Of Genocide | ipl.org

Genocide is the deliberate killing of a large group of people especially those of a particular ethnic group, religion, race or nation. When we hear the word...

www.ipl.org

Educational Resources -- The Armenian Holocaust: A Bibliography Relating to the Deportations, Massacres, and Dispersion of the Armenian People, 1915-1923 (Look at the cover)
Armenian National Institute -- Dead Reckoning (4th paragraph quotes Churchill as calling the genocide a holocaust)

 

[Justice and Rule]

Wrong. Many Native Americans consider what happened to them to be a Holocaust. Many Armenians consider refer to their genocide as the Armenian Holocaust (and within the past few years ago, I read an article about some Jewish-Americans being upset about another group describing their own genocide as a Holocaust. I am almost certain it was the Armenians, but I may be wrong).

Native Americans
National American Indian Holocaust Museum

Native American Genocide or Holocaust?

To this day, some people dispute whether the Native American genocide committed by the U.S. ought to be called "genocide."

indiancountrytoday.com

The American Indian Holocaust: healing historical unresolved grief - PubMed

Armenians

The Armenian Holocaust: The Rise Of Genocide | ipl.org

Genocide is the deliberate killing of a large group of people especially those of a particular ethnic group, religion, race or nation. When we hear the word...

www.ipl.org

Educational Resources -- The Armenian Holocaust: A Bibliography Relating to the Deportations, Massacres, and Dispersion of the Armenian People, 1915-1923 (Look at the cover)
Armenian National Institute -- Dead Reckoning (4th paragraph quotes Churchill as calling the genocide a holocaust)

I mean, none of these point to a common usage. In fact, the article on Native Americans makes the point that people don't commonly use it for exactly the reasons we've outlined. They are arguing to use it more generally and that people don't seem to be comfortable with that.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Jon Petrie has written for the Journal of Genocide Research and gives an exhaustive account of how the usage of the word holocaust has changed over time. He is sympathetic to a broad, secular use of the word to describe human atrocities:

Holocaust word

 

[Argyle King]

....


Where a word starts is generally less important than where it currently is.



But for non-Protestant Christians, it's a box that carries the body of Christ.



I mean, that's how context works: when you put words in a certain context, they take on different meanings. Using a name that is most commonly used for a religious item as the evil focus of a lich? That's not a great context.

Where do you feel the word phylactery currently is in the context of D&D and fantasy roleplaying?

I'll admit that I'm unfamiliar with the way you're using tabernacle. Maybe there are people who use it that way. I'm more familiar with the word meaning a building.

Either way, if an adventure were to include a Lich's Tabernacle, I wouldn't be offended. I think that would be a cool name for an adventure.

In the context of a tabernacle being a building, having a lich's soul bound to a building would be interesting.

In the way you've used the word, a powerful lich who had kept pieces of his body from when he/she was alive could be an interesting quirk for a villain.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I dunno, I kinda always liked it that D&D is stealing terms from real world mythology and giving them a role in the game. But if they think it's neccessary...

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Shrug. It doesn't really matter. I have never actually purchased a product from Paizo, except maybe an issue of Dragon and/or Dungeon magazines. And since they're "red" on the List of Woke TTRPG Companies, I doubt I ever will. It seems like their customer base loves it, so more power to 'em.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Double post