Defining TTRPGs and the the International Roguelike Development Conference's "Berlin Interpretation"

[Tun Kai Poh]

Agreed about the LARPs - there is plenty of overlap with the RPGs played at the tabletop.

That said, there are plenty of GMless games (such as The Quiet Year, Dream Askew/Apart and the whole genre of Belonging Outside Belonging games) that have specific mechanical interaction, but no dice or competition, but they're classified as roleplaying games because of the elements of play and interaction used to create a shared fiction. For that matter, there are plenty of GMed games where there is no competition, or the competition is illusory. So I don't see competition as a necessary part of TTRPGs.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Note competition was not an element in my statement. I do think interaction with other people, while not strictly necessary, is an important element of it (while acknowledging the issue about solo roleplaying--which often has, effectively, an NPC emulator so the player at least has something to bounce off of).

 

[Tun Kai Poh]

Note competition was not an element in my statement. I do think interaction with other people, while not strictly necessary, is an important element of it (while acknowledging the issue about solo roleplaying--which often has, effectively, an NPC emulator so the player at least has something to bounce off of).

I was splitting my response between you and @GMMichael - apologies for the confusion...

 

[Campbell]

Some people seem to want to define roleplaying game along the lines of area control board games. Some people prefer roleplaying game be used for a larger category like board games or video games. I personally prefer the later with something like adventure roleplaying game be used to describe the PC group working together to complete adventures sort of play most folks on these boards are most familiar with.

 

[GMMichael]

That said, there are plenty of GMless games (such as The Quiet Year, Dream Askew/Apart and the whole genre of Belonging Outside Belonging games) that have specific mechanical interaction, but no dice or competition, but they're classified as roleplaying games because of the elements of play and interaction used to create a shared fiction. For that matter, there are plenty of GMed games where there is no competition, or the competition is illusory. So I don't see competition as a necessary part of TTRPGs.

Who is classifying these GM-less games as role-playing games? Who's classifying games without competition as games? As I mentioned earlier, you can call your own product a "game," but that doesn't make it so.

Moving all the black chess pieces isn't a game. Playing chess against yourself is a game, but just barely. If the meaning of "game" is in doubt here, then "Defining TTRPGs. . ." just isn't going to happen.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Who is classifying these GM-less games as role-playing games? Who's classifying games without competition as games? As I mentioned earlier, you can call your own product a "game," but that doesn't make it so.

Cooperative games are not a new concept. Sometimes they're indirectly competitive, but sometimes they just have a collective win/loss condition.

I also fail to see why, even if its the common case, a GM is a required component of a roleplaying game.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Games don’t require competition. It’s very often an element, but I don’t see how it’s required.

Some people prefer roleplaying game be used for a larger category like board games or video games.

This is the way I lean, too. I just see RPGs as a very broad category. The sub-categories could probably use some definition, and that’s fine.

 

[Tun Kai Poh]

If Solitaire is a game, then so is The Wretched, or Thousand Year Old Vampire.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If Solitaire is a game, then so is The Wretched, or Thousand Year Old Vampire.

I don't question its gamishness, but whether there's much meaningful roleplaying.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I don't question its gamishness, but whether there's much meaningful roleplaying.

I'm not familiar with either game but if one is putting themself into the headspace of, for example, a thousand year old vampire (Nandor!) and thinking through scenarios of some sort, I certainly consider it roleplaying.