D&D 3E/3.5 What was the original intended function of the 3rd edition phb classes?

[GMforPowergamers]

When they were playtesting I don't think they were buying buckets of wands etc.

Wand if CLW for example was "discovered" on the forums. They didn't know how good they were for the price.

the first few campaigns we played in 3.0 had clerics serving as our main healing with potions as a back up... in our group it was someone who read on the form and took craft wand (was that 3rd or 5th?) and started to make wands to heal out of combat and our games got gonzo...

one of the funniest complaints i heard about 4e/54 was "every fight/every day" you are at full hp, but we were doing that for 5ish years in 3e

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Damage numbers and ac scaling changed from 2E. They more or less converted hit dice as is but added in ability scores.

Fighters comparatively rocked in 2E ACs mattered more and saves went up.

I had a 3E era fighter player use a Myrmidon (2E fighter kit) in 2012. He was shocked how good he was relative to 3E.

Despite having no feats or the ability to buy magic items.

I was a fighter player 90% of the time in the 90's if I was playing a caster it was a multi classed one... from 3e and now 5e (skipping 4e where I loved to have non casters back) I played casters... too many options and powers are spell only...

 

[Bacon Bits]

I was a fighter player 90% of the time in the 90's if I was playing a caster it was a multi classed one... from 3e and now 5e (skipping 4e where I loved to have non casters back) I played casters... too many options and powers are spell only...

There was essentially no reason to ever be a magic-user instead of a magic-user/thief in AD&D. The cost was being not much more than 1 level behind since the XP to gain a level roughly doubles with each level in AD&D. In exchange, you got better HP from both the larger hit die and shorter levels. You got the ability to use some weapons and armor if you were out of spells. You got better saves and better attack routines. And you got all the thief skills. Unless your table used the non-human racial level limits -- which, in my experience, anybody who said they did at character creation changed their mind when you got to the level cap -- there was just no reason to be single class if you were not human. And the only reason to be human were the classes that required it. Further, if you DID use the level limits, then being a single class non-human just got you to the cap that much faster! All the more reason to multiclass!

Sure, fighter/mage has better equipment draw, saves, and HP, but a lot of the benefits you can't use at the same time. You could always get some elven chain and then you're doing great as a fighter/mage, but that's a gamble.

 

[Stormonu]

I don't know if this was the experience of others, but in 1E/2E, the cleric primarily loaded cure spells, and short of the occasional healing potion, they were the only thing that could heal the PCs in the game.

As I recall, 3E tried to change things so the cleric didn't have to do the heavy lifting healing the party, so they could do "more interesting things" with their spell list ... but it backfired with the rise of CoDzilla. After all, who needs to heal the party if the enemy is dead before they can attack or rendered ineffective in the first place? Things like the increase and reliance on magic items just made the situation worse.

 

[Mannahnin]

I don't know if this was the experience of others, but in 1E/2E, the cleric primarily loaded cure spells, and short of the occasional healing potion, they were the only thing that could heal the PCs in the game.

As I recall, 3E tried to change things so the cleric didn't have to do the heavy lifting healing the party, so they could do "more interesting things" with their spell list ... but it backfired with the rise of CoDzilla. After all, who needs to heal the party if the enemy is dead before they can attack or rendered ineffective in the first place? Things like the increase and reliance on magic items just made the situation worse.

TBF, in 1E and 2E there only WERE "cure HP" spells at 1st, 4th, and 5th level, but yeah, a lot of groups expected the Cleric to load up on cures where they could. It kind of depended on the culture of the group, though. In practice some Clerics would mix in a few other practical spells on those levels, and load up on max cures on downtime days when the party was beat up.

3E introduced more Cures (at each level, as I recall), and introduced Domain spells so Clerics could always cast a Domain spell in place of a prepared spell of the same level, with the idea that you'd always have the option of a cure or something else with any given slot on any given day. But they kept healing spells as basically always being your Standard Action for the round. They hoped that the buffing spells & added offensive capabilities clerics got in this edition (there was a big increase in offense spells available) would offset the rounds they had to "take off" to heal allies, but as you say, in practice a lot of players just spent slots self-buffing to be all offense all the time and heal after the fact.

 

[HammerMan]

The original intent iirc was options and removing restrictions.

From what I heard they didn't playtest past lvl 10 and they playtested like they were playing advanced 2E.

Some of those restrictions existed for a reason.

the lack of playtest shows

 

[HammerMan]

If you reread my prior statements you might see that I agree that high level pre 3e characters and monsters are more likely to make saves than fail them.

I thought the fact that I was responding to your claim that save or suck spells did not happen until higher levels was clear from the fact I quoted you saying they would not happen until higher levels.

except it all goes togather... you can't break up her argument into little bites and try to disprove one or two little bits and say that disproves the overall argument...

 

[Minigiant]

the lack of playtest shows

It wasn't the lack of playtest but the lack of outside playtest.

They only playtested how they'd play. They barely playtested how others would play.

 

[Voadam]

TBF, in 1E and 2E there only WERE "cure HP" spells at 1st, 4th, and 5th level,

Don't forget 6th level heal.

 

[Voadam]

except it all goes togather...

Nonsense.

The erroneous nature of your assertion that pre-3e save or suck spells only came into play when fighters were good at saving against them can be addressed on its own merits.

you can't break up her argument into little bites and try to disprove one or two little bits and say that disproves the overall argument...

My assertion that pre-3e low level saves were tough to make was not an attempt to disprove that high level pre-3e saves were easier to make than 3e high level saves.

Pre-3e low level characters often missed on attack rolls, saving throws, and level based abilities like thief skills. They got significantly better at mid to high levels with high level pre-3e fighters in particular often hitting and making saving throws.