D&D 5E Don't play "stupid" characters. It is ableist.

[Charlaquin]

There are a lot of assumptions here. (And you know the saying about that…)

Only do it if you’re going to be right?

 

[Faolyn]

Roleplaying is in and of itself a subjective activity. On any level, for any char, any stat, any setting.
Two actors can look at the same role, the same character, and do dramatically different things with it. That has happened with Shakespeare's chars for 500 years. And yes, roleplaying a char's Int, or CHA, or anything, is ACTING.

To repeat: Ad_hoc wasn't talking about specific scores. They weren't saying, "don't play a character with a score below 8" or some other number. They were specifically talking about how one roleplays the low score.

Plato said "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" . Conversely, some person acting in some manner via their avatar may offend one person, but that same action may not offend someone else. So, again, I ask, what is the precise threshold.

The threshhold is between "being a decent person" and "being a jerk." For example: playing a character to be a parody of what you think a stupid person is like = being a jerk.

What was the action that triggered the thread creator to make their post?

Unimportant. Unless you need active examples on how not to be a jerk.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Conversely, some person acting in some manner via their avatar may offend one person, but that same action may not offend someone else.

Right. If I say sophomoric things in the privacy of my closet, where nobody can hear me, I haven’t offended anyone.

But I’m still being sophomoric.

So the OP wasn’t actually talking about offending anyone.

So, again, I ask, what is the precise threshold. What was the action that triggered the thread creator to make their post?

Funny I thought he was just making some worthwhile observations, not that he was “triggered”.

Or was that some kind of dog whistle?

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

To repeat: Ad_hoc wasn't talking about specific scores. They weren't saying, "don't play a character with a score below 8" or some other number. They were specifically talking about how one roleplays the low score.


The threshhold is between "being a decent person" and "being a jerk." For example: playing a character to be a parody of what you think a stupid person is like = being a jerk.


Unimportant. Unless you need active examples on how not to be a jerk.

Once again, you are applying your own set of values to something that is completely subjective. Roleplaying = acting, and by definition that is a completely personal expression of how the actor believes the char should be portrayed in that particular setting.

For example, go watch The Producers (the original movie). What the producers thought would be a offensive disaster ended up being a hit, as the audience loved it. I don't know your what your thresholds are for what is being a "decent person", and what is "being a jerk". And you don't know mine. And you don't know anyone else's either, unless they precisely tell you what they found offensive, and why.

Every single person is different, and no one has the right to say to another person "You have to stop that behaviour, because I find it offensive" Now, if you want to get a group of people that agree with you that some precise act or comment is offensive, then yeah, we see now every day how that works. But as an individual, no.

So, how about this:
I am playing a Paladin with a dump stat of Int = 8. (I never play, nor allow chars at my table with stats less than 8).
The Paladin says to the group "You guys with your puzzle-solving brains, too much for me, wake me when you are done". Offensive to you?
How about the same Paladin when faced with doing some mathematical calculation really quickly, like calculating the volume and mass of a huge jug of water, in order to rescue the party from a trap, and the player says, in-game "I am not smart enough to do that!" Offensive to you?

Because those two comments/situations are certainly not offensive to me, and I am betting I can find a critical mass of players that would just blink if asked if they found those comments offensive. Conversely, I am sure there are people out there that blow a gasket at those comments.

Who is right in that case?

 

[Bill Zebub]

Once again, you are applying your own set of values to something that is completely subjective. Roleplaying = acting, and by definition that is a completely personal expression of how the actor believes the char should be portrayed in that particular setting.

For example, go watch The Producers (the original movie). What the producers thought would be a offensive disaster ended up being a hit, as the audience loved it. I don't know your what your thresholds are for what is being a "decent person", and what is "being a jerk". And you don't know mine. And you don't know anyone else's either, unless they precisely tell you what they found offensive, and why.

Every single person is different, and no one has the right to say to another person "You have to stop that behaviour, because I find it offensive" Now, if you want to get a group of people that agree with you that some precise act or comment is offensive, then yeah, we see now every day how that works. But as an individual, no.

So, how about this:
I am playing a Paladin with a dump stat of Int = 8. (I never play, nor allow chars at my table with stats less than 8).
The Paladin says to the group "You guys with your puzzle-solving brains, too much for me, wake me when you are done". Offensive to you?
How about the same Paladin when faced with doing some mathematical calculation really quickly, like calculating the volume and mass of a huge jug of water, in order to rescue the party from a trap, and the player says, in-game "I am not smart enough to do that!" Offensive to you?

Because those two comments/situations are certainly not offensive to me, and I am betting I can find a critical mass of players that would just blink if asked if they found those comments offensive. Conversely, I am sure there are people out there that blow a gasket at those comments.

Who is right in that case?

It's not about offending people.

I realize that those who are uncomfortable discussing this want it to be about giving offense, because then the arguments of the sort you keep making hold at least a little bit of water. Sorta.

But it's not about offending people.

 

[Irlo]

And I’ll repeat.

It’s not about offending people.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

I have played stupid characters. Often to great fun and enjoyment. Playing the comic relief guy is a lot of fun sometimes! Likewise, I've played the "heroic idiot" who just does the right thing naturally and have become folk heroes to the commoner.

There are stupid people in life. That's just a fact. I mean, nobody can tell me that Lloyd and Harry from "Dumb & Dumber" are 'regular average intelligence people with strange personality quirks'. Just sayin'...

As for all the talk of 'ablisim'...it's an RPG. I don't care. I'm a logical adult, fully capable of understanding that what happens in an RPG is NOT at all translatable to the real world. IMNSHO, trying to equate "Well, but in D&D..." into real life is a fools errand and waste of time. So I don't. If someone wants to play a negative-stereotype PC (re: "big dumb bully", or "blond bimbo", or "socially awkward nerd", etc) ...go for it. It's a game of make believe. As long as it doesn't become annoying, I'm not going to stop anyone (or myself, as DM, I have to play a lot of these stereotypes; because stereotypes are HUGELY useful for conveying the 'form' of an NPC/Monster in just a very short time or number of words).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Hussar]

/snip

Every single person is different, and no one has the right to say to another person "You have to stop that behaviour, because I find it offensive"
/snip

Wow. That is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[Hex08]

Well, I think the premise of the OP is wrong and flawed but I am can't decide if it's serious or just trolling.

It seems the basic premise is "The idea of 'stupid' and 'smart' is rooted in ableism." but there is nothing to support that position in the original post. Without an argument or evidence to support the position I’m inclined to think the OP is just stating a personal opinion as fact or trying to start an argument (and therefore trolling). All we are given are examples of why some people may sometimes behave stupidly.

The OP then goes on to state "Don't use stats as an excuse" but since D&D (and other RPGs) is a game where a character's physical and mental characteristics are measured on a numerical scale that seems to be inherently impossible. If a character has a 5 Intelligence it is, according to the rules of the game, of low intelligence and if it has a 16 then it is of high intelligence. This is not “an excuse”, it is playing the game using the provided ruleset. How a player chooses to roleplay that is a different discussion and one that does come up in later posts.

Yes, everyone does stupid things but there are people out there who have higher or lower general intelligence than others. Ignoring or shading over this for reasons of cultural or social equality is a mistake, however well intentioned. Before making such judgments it is important to educate yourself on topics such as G Theory and other theories on general intelligence and their criticisms (and by that I mean more than just reading a Wikipedia article). These topics are far more nuanced than we often realize, and may sometimes conflict with our beliefs regarding social equality.

Also, drawing direct correlations between D&Ds stats and their real life equivalents is a rabbit hole you will never escape from.

​

 

[John R Davis]

Personally? I'd roll 4d6, and drop the lowest.

The issue isn't math. The issue is making a mockery of others from a privileged position, then pointing at a number (any number) on your character sheet to justify it.

Or be stupid and roll 4d6 and drop the highest.