D&D 5E Don't play "stupid" characters. It is ableist.

[Vince_Snetterton]

I wonder how much the impression changes from a table where people use voices in character vs. not, and how much of the time is spent speaking with the characters words vs. how much is spent saying what the characters do.

Is the way the character is being portrayed done straight or punching up? Is the disability played as part of the character or played for laughs?

I'm trying to think if the character Finnegan in the old Duffy's Tavern radio show crosses the line. He's certainly played as not bright with a speech pattern that I can see being taken as potentially offensive today, but he's also often the straight man in the act and sometimes deflates the main character.

If you are going to step into the time machine, and try to apply the value system of a segment of today's society to social values of yesteryear, you are opening up a can of worms that has no end.

 

[Cadence]

If you are going to step into the time machine, and try to apply the value system of a segment of today's society to social values of yesteryear, you are opening up a can of worms that has no end.

I was just wondering why Finnegan on the show doesn't seem offensive to me - or why some old shows seem to stand the test of time still, and others don't.

There's a whole discussion not to be had hear on applying values across time and I didn't mean to go down that. Sorry.

 

[Voadam]

Don't use stats as an excuse. Having an 8 Int means (basically) that the character is slightly worse at memorizing facts than an average human.

Do have traits and behaviours which hinder the character (if you want).

Maybe they are not very knowledgeable.

Maybe they don't pay attention much of the time.

Maybe they engage in risky behaviour and think rashly.

Maybe they lack confidence because they have been called 'stupid' their whole lives.

Maybe they find themselves in a culture which is very different than their own and they struggle to adapt. Their common isn't very good and the way they view the world is different than those around them.

There are lots of possibilities to create interesting characters rather than just a walking insult and punching bag.

I can't tell if these are supposed to be suggestions on good ways to play low intelligence characters.

In particular I would not suggest using people who do not speak English/Common very well as a second language as a good example of communicating a character's low intelligence.

All of these suggestions seem to be things that could apply to a character regardless of int stat. Even not knowledgeable would just be don't take the knowledge skills, but be good at reasoning and logic and remembering and come on things fresh.

I would say the Tick (cartoon and Patrick Warburton live action both work) is a great fun exemplar if you want to roleplay a particularly dim or stupid character.

 

[Deset Gled]

Oof. I think that wording would probably help better convey the idea OP was trying to express to some of the folks who seem to be misunderstanding, but… I’m not sure that benefit is worth using a slur to achieve.

To be clear, I agree that the r word is offensive. I've edited my post.

 

[Faolyn]

Once again, you are applying your own set of values to something that is completely subjective. Roleplaying = acting, and by definition that is a completely personal expression of how the actor believes the char should be portrayed in that particular setting.

Once again, you are failing to misunderstand the basic premise of the original post.

But to use your example: an actor can portray a character however they feel like it. However, the portrayal may be an offensive mockery.

If you literally don't know if something is an offensive mockery, then try to find out.

For example, go watch The Producers (the original movie). What the producers thought would be a offensive disaster ended up being a hit, as the audience loved it. I don't know your what your thresholds are for what is being a "decent person", and what is "being a jerk". And you don't know mine. And you don't know anyone else's either, unless they precisely tell you what they found offensive, and why.

Are you deliberately trying to make fun of someone or a group of people by mocking how they act or how you think they act? Then you're quite probably being a jerk. This is particularly the case if you're mocking someone for an inborn trait (intelligence) rather than a choice they make (political party).

(Also, you do realize that the Producers is a movie and the audience in it was written to find it funny. From what I've read, the actual movie had mixed reviews upon release but gained popularity later on.)

Every single person is different, and no one has the right to say to another person "You have to stop that behaviour, because I find it offensive" Now, if you want to get a group of people that agree with you that some precise act or comment is offensive, then yeah, we see now every day how that works. But as an individual, no.

Everyone has the right to say that to other people. People aren't required to stop the behavior--but on the other hand, if someone is telling you they find your behavior offensive, then it might be a good idea to examine the behavior in question. Maybe that person who told you that is being a jerk themselves. But maybe you are the one being a jerk.

(Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.)

And again, it heavily depends on whether the behavior is an inborn trait. Ones ethnicity, sexuality, gender, raw intelligence, etc. is an inborn trait, and shouldn't be discriminated against. Being a bigot, however, is not inborn.

So, how about this:
I am playing a Paladin with a dump stat of Int = 8. (I never play, nor allow chars at my table with stats less than 8).
The Paladin says to the group "You guys with your puzzle-solving brains, too much for me, wake me when you are done". Offensive to you?

No. Because you're not making fun of people who aren't smart.

Also, you don't allow low stats? That's a shame. There's a player in one of the games I'm running with a 6 Wis warlock and he's an absolutely awesome character. Tons of fun to DM for.

How about the same Paladin when faced with doing some mathematical calculation really quickly, like calculating the volume and mass of a huge jug of water, in order to rescue the party from a trap, and the player says, in-game "I am not smart enough to do that!" Offensive to you?

No, because you're not making fun of people who aren't smart.

Waaay back in the 80s, it was common for the kids at my school to call people stupid by saying their name and making an arm gesture that--although I didn't realize it at the time--mimicked the muscle contractures of a person with cerebral palsy. You know: arm held up with a loose wrist and the fingers curled under. According to this site, about half of people with cerebral palsy have intellectual disabilities, although I'm sure the kids at my school assumed it was always the case, and they probably didn't even know what it actually was, just that "dumb people" held their arms like that.

So if you decided to play a low-Int character and used a gesture like that to indicate when you were speaking in character, I think just about everyone would say you were being offensive. It's unlikely you're that talented an actor to pull it off, and D&D isn't really built to stat out specific disabilities like CP.

In reality, though, I'd bet most people who are going to be playing a "stupid" character are actually doing lolrandom stuff like going out of their way to deliberately trigger traps or pour that full jug of water over the angry archmage the party was negotiating with because "that's what stupid people are like." And this is also offensive, and disruptive to boot.

 

[Faolyn]

You say that now, but that's only because you haven't mathed out the DPR for your pizza.

Apples? Hazelnuts? THOSE ARE TRAP OPTIONS!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!

An apple hazelnut desert pizza actually sounds really good.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

An apple hazelnut desert pizza actually sounds really good.

There are pastries.

There are tortes.

There are pies (both sweet and savory).

Calling a torte or a pastry a dessert pizza does disservice to desserts, pizza, and to yourself. It is the trick of marketers, beloved by cut-rate charlatans and national chains attempting to sell you cardboard and "upsale you" on some abominable corn syrup.

Do not fall for the junk merchants and their tricks.

 

[payn]

There are pastries.

There are tortes.

There are pies (both sweet and savory).

Calling a torte or a pastry a dessert pizza does disservice to desserts, pizza, and to yourself. It is the trick of marketers, beloved by cut-rate charlatans and national chains attempting to sell you cardboard and "upsale you" on some abominable corn syrup.

Do not fall for the junk merchants and their tricks.

Yeap, like the crossian'wich...

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Yeap, like the crossian'wich...

Every time someone uses that term, a French chef beats themselves to death with a baguette.

 

[Cadence]

There are pastries.

There are tortes.

There are pies (both sweet and savory).

Calling a torte or a pastry a dessert pizza does disservice to desserts, pizza, and to yourself. It is the trick of marketers, beloved by cut-rate charlatans and national chains attempting to sell you cardboard and "upsale you" on some abominable corn syrup.

Do not fall for the junk merchants and their tricks.

Oh great guru...

The pizza place I worked at would fill orders for cheesless pizzas, sauceless pizzas, stuffed pizzas, and had a turkey teriyaki pizza and Denver omelet pizza on the menu one day a week. Sauced breadstick and cheesey bread for the first two? Heavenly pizza or a pot pie for the middle? Abomination and unclassified delicacy for the last two?