D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[HammerMan]

Ability checks encompass all skills plus any non-skill ability check, including initiative. That's extraordinarily general. A rule which specifically only affects a single player and his PC is much more specific.

A rule about how players control there characters is pretty general, What ability checks and skills cover is much more specific

 

[Lanefan]

Classic example of this: a Rogue attempts to Hide within a Darkness spell unaware that their opponent has Blindsight and is unhindered by magical darkness. Action is taken, but no skill is engaged.

How is the skill not engaged? The Rogue is still going through the motions of attempting to Hide, and thus engages (or employs) the skill.

That in this case the skill has no chance of succeeding doesn't mean it isn't engaged.

 

[Maxperson]

I once (back in AD&D times) had the party come across a log, about 18" in diameter, at waist height across the passage they were in.

I wish I had been tracking time like @iserith and @Charlaquin do because they spent sooooo much time at that log, convinced it was a trap.

It was just a log, suspended across the passage for unknown reasons.

And they seize on the strangest things. Once I made an ancient dungeon where a fight once happened. So of course while laying out the first room, I put an arrowhead on the floor(the rest having long since disintegrated). I describe the room including the arrowhead and suddenly it was like. "Why is that arrowhead there?" "Is it a trap?" "Maybe someone placed it there and it's pointing to a trap." "Which way is the arrowhead pointing?" And now I'm behind the screen thinking, "Hell if I know which way it's facing." "Um, it's facing to the left wall." Which of course led to them wondering what was up with the left wall and trying to figure it out without entering the room. So...................much..................time.......

 

[Charlaquin]

Thing is, I'd bet a vast majority of players don't even realize they have the option of doing this, which makes it somewhat moot.

Players should read the player’s handbook. DMs should read the dungeon master’s guide (and also the player’s handbook. And probably the monster manual). That many people are ignorant of the rules doesn’t make them not rules.

 

[HammerMan]

How is the skill not engaged? The Rogue is still going through the motions of attempting to Hide, and thus engages (or employs) the skill.

That in this case the skill has no chance of succeeding doesn't mean it isn't engaged.

and unless it is just the two of them I would argue he has to roll for everyone that DOESNT see through it.

 

[Maxperson]

A rule about how players control there characters is pretty general, What ability checks and skills cover is much more specific

Sure, it's general, but it's less general than a rule about the entirety of ability checks. One rule deals with every ability check and the other with a very limited subset of ability checks. That makes it more specific.

 

[Charlaquin]

And they seize on the strangest things. Once I made an ancient dungeon where a fight once happened. So of course while laying out the first room, I put an arrowhead on the floor(the rest having long since disintegrated). I describe the room including the arrowhead and suddenly it was like. "Why is that arrowhead there?" "Is it a trap?" "Maybe someone placed it there and it's pointing to a trap." "Which way is the arrowhead pointing?" And now I'm behind the screen thinking, "Hell if I know which way it's facing." "Um, it's facing to the left wall." Which of course led to them wondering what was up with the left wall and trying to figure it out without entering the room. So...................much..................time.......

That’ll teach you for including pointed things in your dungeon! And for describing them as pointing towards something!

 

[Maxperson]

That’ll teach you for including pointed things in your dungeon! And for describing them as pointing towards something!

That's just it! I didn't! It wasn't pointing at anything until they asked and then I had to have it pointing somewhere, because there's no way the point wouldn't be facing some direction.

 

[HammerMan]

Sure, it's general, but it's less general than a rule about the entirety of ability checks. One rule deals with every ability check and the other with a very limited subset of ability checks. That makes it more specific.

but one of them deals with role playing and what it means to play your character every moment of the game, the other a sub set of a sub set of rolls that might not even come up in any given campaign let alone any night.

 

[Charlaquin]

Multiple posters are addressing me. I can't really answer the same question multiple times (well evidently I can, as I do, but hopefully you will understand the fatigue.) If I missed something, apologies: I was guiding you to reconsider your view of "you" and the like, in 5th ed rules text.

Yeah friend, please feel free to take your time in responding. It’s a fast-moving thread so it’s easy to miss stuff, and we’re all very passionate about this, so feel free to walk away if you need to, and come back to it later - or not. It’s all good.