D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[Charlaquin]

Most of the time when a player asks something like that, what they're really asking is "Is there anything else obvious about this scene that you could/should have narrated but didn't?". This is highly relevant when running published modules and relying on the boxed text, as boxed text is sometimes woefully incomplete and in a few cases outright erroneous when compared to the map and-or non-boxed write-up.

And even when using homebrew modules it's all too easy to forget to narrate something obvious, such as - in this case - an exit.

Oh, indeed. I hate boxed text in modules because of exactly this.

 

[Charlaquin]

What about if they say "I try each key" - does that work?

Sure, that’s fine. That tells me what you want to achieve (to unlock the door) and how you’re attempting to do it (trying each key in turn until one works or you have tried them all and none of them worked). No problem there.

 

[Lanefan]

“The fourth key opens it, but the 7th one triggers a trap.”
“What?!?! I would have stopped after I found the right one!”
“Next time you might want to be more specific.”

I'd stop after "The fourth key opens it" and see if they want to continue trying keys or do something else like look inside/behind whatever it was that was locked.

 

[Maxperson]

Oh come on, man - this is 2021, not 2001. That's pure 3e talk there.

5e is way more open-ended, at least in its intent; more like 0e and to some extent 1e.

Even in 1e all a lack of specificity meant was that the player could try it. If the DM said no, it was no. If he said yes, it was yes. Lack of denial wasn't approval even back in 1e.

We do?

Yes. The designers have clarified that on twitter. The social skills were not intended for use on PCs.

Seems to me the main point of contention here is that some people don't know that and-or aren't interpreting the rules and guidance the same way you are.

The guidance indicates very strongly that it shouldn't be used on PCs and the designers have backed that up. A few people are using the, "Well it doesn't explicitly deny it, so it must allow it." argument to ignore what the various rules sections strongly imply.

 

[Lanefan]

You’re talking about motivations, not goals.

Quite often the motivation is the goal, is what I'm saying.

I don’t care why a character wants to do something; “because I can” is as valid a reason as any. But I do need to know what they’re trying to accomplish. Intimidate people into what? “being afraid of me” is fine, but I do need the player to state that clearly. Searching a desk for what? “Anything of interest or value” is fine, but I do need the player to state that clearly. Picking pockets is kind of self-explanatory, obviously you want to get whatever is in their pockets.

With these "just for the hell of it" actions I'm not as worried about specificity as you are, I think. "Because I can" just tells me the action's being taken for the most basic of reasons, and all is good.

 

[Charlaquin]

“The fourth key opens it, but the 7th one triggers a trap.”
“What?!?! I would have stopped after I found the right one!”
“Next time you might want to be more specific.”

That seems a little pedantic to me, to be honest. If one of the keys unlocks the door and one triggers a trap, I would say that trying each key in turn would have a possibility of success, and while it doesn’t have a possibility of failure per se, I would call trying the trap key first a setback that might be combined with the progress of eventually getting to the right key. That is to say, I would call for an ability check; on a success you find the right key before the trap key. On a failure you try the trap key first. Not entirely sure what ability would be most appropriate. Honestly, maybe even just an unmodified d20 roll would be appropriate in this case.

 

[Charlaquin]

Quite often the motivation is the goal, is what I'm saying.

With these "just for the hell of it" actions I'm not as worried about specificity as you are, I think. "Because I can" just tells me the action's being taken for the most basic of reasons, and all is good.

That’s your prerogative. I would want to know what the player considers “the most basic of reasons.” And again, “reason” isn’t really what it’s about for me. I need to know what the player expects the results of success to be. “Make them cower before me”? Great! “Find something valuable, or just neat?” Sure!

 

[Lanefan]

That seems a little pedantic to me, to be honest. If one of the keys unlocks the door and one triggers a trap, I would say that trying each key in turn would have a possibility of success, and while it doesn’t have a possibility of failure per se, I would call trying the trap key first a setback that might be combined with the progress of eventually getting to the right key. That is to say, I would call for an ability check; on a success you find the right key before the trap key. On a failure you try the trap key first. Not entirely sure what ability would be most appropriate. Honestly, maybe even just an unmodified d20 roll would be appropriate in this case.

For me, if I hadn't pre-determined which key works and which is the trapped one I'd quietly roll two d7s, the first roll being the working key and the second being the trapped one (reroll until I get two different numbers).

So, if I rolled 4 then 7 I'd get @Bill Zebub 's result, where the 4th key they try opens the lock and the 7th is trapped. If I rolled 5 then 2 the 2nd key they try is the trapped one and (if they keep going) the 5th one opens the lock.

 

[Charlaquin]

For me, if I hadn't pre-determined which key works and which is the trapped one I'd quietly roll two d7s, the first roll being the working key and the second being the trapped one (reroll until I get two different numbers).

So, if I rolled 4 then 7 I'd get @Bill Zebub 's result, where the 4th key they try opens the lock and the 7th is trapped. If I rolled 5 then 2 the 2nd key they try is the trapped one and (if they keep going) the 5th one opens the lock.

Yeah, that’s a good solution. d7 is a bit of an awkward die though - I think I have one actual 7-sided die in the house somewhere, but damned if I know where.

 

[Lanefan]

Yeah, that’s a good solution. d7 is a bit of an awkward die though - I think I have one actual 7-sided die in the house somewhere, but damned if I know where.

I just use a d8 and reroll 8s.