D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[Swarmkeeper]

I just use a d8 and reroll 8s.

Naw - if you roll an 8, the whole key set is a mimic!

 

[iserith]

Even in 1e all a lack of specificity meant was that the player could try it. If the DM said no, it was no. If he said yes, it was yes. Lack of denial wasn't approval even back in 1e.

Yes. The designers have clarified that on twitter. The social skills were not intended for use on PCs.

The guidance indicates very strongly that it shouldn't be used on PCs and the designers have backed that up. A few people are using the, "Well it doesn't explicitly deny it, so it must allow it." argument to ignore what the various rules sections strongly imply.

And to be clear, the rules don't prevent the DM from doing anything, including using weighted rolls (e.g. d20+Intimidate) to guide their description of an NPC or monster. It's just not an ability check as the rules lay out.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'd stop after "The fourth key opens it" and see if they want to continue trying keys or do something else like look inside/behind whatever it was that was locked.

Yes, I was joking.

 

[Faolyn]

Not explicitly, but that doesn't matter. D&D is not a game where if it doesn't say you can't do something, you can. It's a game where if it doesn't say you can't do something, you can't unless the DM makes it so that you can.

Er, no. The DMG specifically states that you (the DM) are supposed to figure out how to let the players do a thing that doesn't already have a formal rule--not that the thing can't be done unless you deign to allow it. That's in the introduction to the DMG.

 

[Mordhau]

Er, no. The DMG specifically states that you (the DM) are supposed to figure out how to let the players do a thing that doesn't already have a formal rule--not that the thing can't be done unless you deign to allow it. That's in the introduction to the DMG.

I don't really think there's any practical disagreement here. It's just quibling about terminology.

The GM can be expected to say some things can't be done.
Player: I flap my arms really hard and try to fly up to the roof of the cave to check out the stalactites.
DM: No
Player: What If I roll a natural 20 on Athletics?
DM: No.

I don't think anyone's meaning to suggest that things that are perfectly reasonable to attempt can't be attempted just because they're not clearly permitted by the rules. But ultimately the DM is the abtritrator of what is reasonable to attempt. (And in practical terms if it's not a spell or special ability or an attack role, or saving throw, then pretty much anything that can be reasonably attempted is covered by the rules for an ability score - assuming a check is required. If it's not something you could reasonably attempt, like flying, then you can't do it unless you have a specific exception like a magic spell or item - in which case, it largely makes sense to say, "if it's outside the rules you can't do it".).

 

[Faolyn]

I don't really think there's any practical disagreement here. It's just quibling about terminology.

The GM can be expected to say some things can't be done.
Player: I flap my arms really hard and try to fly up to the roof of the cave to check out the stalactites.
DM: No
Player: What If I roll a natural 20 on Athletics?
DM: No.

I said if there's no formal rule. There's already formal rules about movement. You need either a flying speed or something that has a flying speed that you can ride on in order to fly. Merely having a skill like Athletics doesn't grant any sort of movement type.

But, as an example involving movement, to the best of my knowledge there are no rules in this edition about moving in the vacuum of space. I don't mean the Astral Plane; I mean literal space, the place with stars and planets and the like. So if the PCs somehow find themselves in outer space, the DM would have to make up rules for them to move around. The DM shouldn't just say "It's not in the books, so you're suck in L5 orbit forever until your air runs out. Too bad, roll up a new character."

(You know, I got up to get myself some water and while I was doing so I thought to myself, "How soon before somebody brings up PCs demanding to fly." About seven minutes, it seems.)

 

[Maxperson]

Er, no. The DMG specifically states that you (the DM) are supposed to figure out how to let the players do a thing that doesn't already have a formal rule--not that the thing can't be done unless you deign to allow it. That's in the introduction to the DMG.

So if I want my longsword to detonate nuclear explosions, you're supposed to figure out how let it happen?

Edit: I also don't see that. Mind quoting it?

 

[Faolyn]

So if I want my longsword to detonate nuclear explosions, you're supposed to figure out how let it happen?

If you can find a nuclear bomb, or even just radioactive material somewhere on the world, then yes, you can attempt to use your sword to set it off.

 

[Bill Zebub]

So if I want my longsword to detonate nuclear explosions, you're supposed to figure out how let it happen?

Yes.

Step 1: find a source of uranium.
Step 2: invent calculus.

(spoiler: there are a LOT of steps)

 

[Maxperson]

(You know, I got up to get myself some water and while I was doing so I thought to myself, "How soon before somebody brings up PCs demanding to fly." About seven minutes, it seems.)

You should have bet me. I'd have gone with "Jump to the moon."