Wheel of Time and other quest fantasies

[Mercurius]

The Wheel of Time series has inspired me to start a re-read of Eye of the World. For background, I read the first seven or eight books as they came out, starting in 1990. For me, as a huge fan of "quest fantasy," it felt like the culmination of the plethora of such fantasies in the 80s. It was almost like Robert Jordan took the best elements of these and then turned it up to 11. I bought and devoured each book as they came out, before getting stalled out at Path of Daggers (book 8) and didn't finish the series (though know the gist of how it ends).

I started a first re-read of EotW about five years ago, but though I was enjoying it, for reasons I forget, I only made it about a third of the way through. But the series and various online discussions (including here) have inspired me to revisit Jordan's world, so I picked up a copy of The Wheel of Time Companion and am greatly enjoying EotW so far. Who knows how far I'll get.

Anyhow, it got me thinking (again) about quest fantasies. In the various sub-genres of fantasy, epic, high, quest, and secondary world fantasies have all been used to describe what I'm talking about, but I'm talking about something a bit more specific than any of those larger categories.

What I mean is this: The main story involves some kind of quest, with a group of companions. It usually starts in some sort of pastoral, or at least homey, setting, and then involves a journey into the "wilderness." There is usually some kind of "dark lord," of course (although in a variety of configurations), magic, magical creatures, lost history, hidden secrets, etc. The emphasis is usually less on politics than it is on some kind of quest or great struggle against the dark lord. And it is generally set in a secondary world.

For many, this is fantasy, although anyone with any knowledge of the genre knows that it is just a thin slice of the larger pie, at this point, with many other different sub-genres, as well as various forms of subversions.

For lack fo a better term, we could also call this "Tolkienian fantasy" - although some of it has other more primary sources of inspiration, and some of it doesn't go into deep world-building like Tolkien did who, in a way, wrote The Lord of the Rings as a way to share his creation, rather than the other way around. But the best of such fantasy, imo, has a feeling of a hidden "legendarium" (to use term for Tolkien's body of Middle-earth work): a body of work, of myths and legends, world details, etc, that is always much larger than what is portrayed in the story itself and that, in the best such instances, gives a strong sense of a living world.

I will also say that while Tolkien codified a certain formula, he isn't the first writer of such fantasy - though he holds a rather titanic place in the sub-genre. In a way, he's the Babe Ruth of such fantasy: Ruth wasn't the first baseball player, or even the first great baseball player, but he not only instituted a new approach to hitting, but he is the archetype of the great baseball player in a way that no other player before or after has been.

So my questions for discussion are this:

What are some examples of truly good "Tolkienian fantasy?" Particularly those that, while they might clearly have Tolkienian elements (e.g. Two Rivers = the Shire, Myrddraal = Nazgul, etc), feel unique in their own right. Like the Wheel of Time.

What are your favorite "Tolkienian fantasies?" This could go hand-in-hand with the above, but broadens a bit to include "guilty pleasures" - stories that you might feel aren't the best written or most original, but are just fun to read and/or hold a special place in your heart, perhaps from your childhood.

I will reply in a separate post, so as not to extend this one too long. But I look forward to hearing from everyone else - especially with regards to more recent books, as I think this sub-genre has somewhat lessened, at least in terms of market-share (in other words, I am unsure if less is being written, or if the field has just diversified and broadened more, while this sub-genre has stayed the same).

 

[TheSword]

I did enjoy the David Eddings works. I read the Belgariad as a boy and remember devouring it before getting on to Robert Jordan a few years later. It was probably my first fantasy epic.

I also remember thoroughly enjoying its sequel, the Mallorian. And the sister trilogy the Eleium and it’s sequel trilogy the Tamuli.

All these books fit the themes you described above and have tolkeinien style characters. Though often they become more extraordinary than the hobbits of the shire. I personally prefer that, probably why I enjoy the Wheel of Time.

The secondary casts are also quite interesting. I remember a snake worshiping vizier, a princess, a bevy of knights, ancient sorcerers, rogues, north men and various other party members.

I think I’d definitely be interested to get them on audio book and give them another go.

 

[Mercurius]

To respond to my own questions:

What are some examples of truly good "Tolkienian fantasy?"
First and foremost, Tolkien himself, although while I love Lord of the Rings, I am more a fan of the Legendarium as a whole - as presented through The Silmarillion, but also various other bits and pieces, such as: the History of Middle-earth series, his Letters, the One Ring wiki, and the recent The Nature of Middle-earth. In my opinion, Middle-earth is still unsurpassed in terms of the "aesthetics of world-building." Others have perhaps done it with as great detail or effectiveness in terms of setting, but none have done it so beautifully.

I only read a few books, but Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is a tremendous work of fantasy, although may be fudging it a bit in terms of being "Tolkienian." But it has the depth of world-building, if the emphasis and style is rather different.

R Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series is, in some ways, a 21st century, almost nihilistic--or at least dark--take on Tolkienian fantasy.

I haven't read it in years, but I imagine Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series still holds up well. In some ways, it started the popularity of the "Big Fat Fantasy," the first book--The Dragonbone Chair--published in 1988, a couple years before Jordan's series began. I haven't read the more recent series.

I already mentioned Robert Jordan in the original post, but would re-mention him here. As I said, I think in many ways, The Wheel of Time is the culmination of Tolkienian fantasy that dominanted the market during the 80s.

What are your favorite "Tolkienian fantasies?"
Growing up, I absolutely loved David Eddings' Belgariad series. It seems rather crude compared to Tolkien in terms of world-building and aesthetics, but it was just a fun read, with many colorful characters.

And of course, Dragonlance - another childhood favorite. When I tried re-reading a couple decades later, I could barely get through the first book as the prose was so amateurish, although I remember it improving by book 2.

One more, before this gets too long (there are others): Raymond Feist's Riftwar Saga, another very popular series. I read and enjoyed the original quartet of books (or trilogy, if you go by the original printing), and then finding that my interest diminished with later books and I only read a few more.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, but oh well. I mainly started this thread to hear from you all. I showed you mine, now show me yours ;-).

 

[Mercurius]

I did enjoy you David Eddings works. I read the Belgariad as a boy and remember devouring it before getting on to Robert Jordan a few years later. It was probably my first fantasy epic.

I also remember thoroughly enjoying its sequel, the Mallorian. And the sister trilogy the Eleium and it’s sequel trilogy the Tamuli.

All these books fit the themes you described above and have tolkeinien style characters. Though often they become more extraordinary than the hobbits of the shire. I personally prefer that, probably why I enjoy the Wheel of Time.

The secondary casts are also quite interesting. I remember a snake worshiping vizier, a princess, a bevy of knights, ancient sorcerers, rogues, north men and various other party members.

I think I’d definitely be interested to get them on audio book and give them another go.

Yeah, I mentioned Eddings in my follow-up after yours: also very much enjoyed them. One of the only series that I re-read within a few months of finishing, but this was back when I was in middle school.

I liked the Elenium, although not as much. I also felt like the Mallorean was sort of a re-tread of the Belgariad, although still enjoyable.

I re-read the Belgariad some years ago - I think maybe fifteen? Still very enjoyable, although also was a bit simplistic to my jaded 30ish self. I've thought of re-reading them again at some point.

 

[Mercurius]

One more thing. I started this thread because I find that even as I like to read widely within fantasy and science fiction, I always come back to this style of fantasy as my favorite. There is something almost comforting about it. And even though it is often accused of being derivative and formulaic, I find that authors still find ways to keep it fresh.

 

[Parmandur]

I haven't read it in years, but I imagine Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series still holds up well. In some ways, it started the popularity of the "Big Fat Fantasy," the first book--The Dragonbone Chair--published in 1988, a couple years before Jordan's series began. I haven't read the more recent series.

I came to say that Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is pretty close to being the only epic fantasy that I know of that actually imitated Tolkien's prose style instead of borrowing some trappings. Mostly people going on long walks to destiny, singing songs about history.

The Wheel of Time leaves the formula behind pretty hard, and takes a weird left turn in books 4-5, when the main characters really start to get into their personal Hells and stay there fighting till Kingdom Come. Becomes more Tolstoy meets Austen than Tolkien.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, I mentioned Eddings in my follow-up after yours: also very much enjoyed them. One of the only series that I re-read within a few months of finishing, but this was back when I was in middle school.

I liked the Elenium, although not as much. I also felt like the Mallorean was sort of a re-tread of the Belgariad, although still enjoyable.

I re-read the Belgariad some years ago - I think maybe fifteen? Still very enjoyable, although also was a bit simplistic to my jaded 30ish self. I've thought of re-reading them again at some point.

Elenium was my first Eddings series. I have fond memories, but there is a good amount of stuff that has aged poorly.

Still, I love the characters, and I want badly to play in a game where a cadre of knights from the same faith but different orders go on a quest.

 

[Zardnaar]

I did enjoy you David Eddings works. I read the Belgariad as a boy and remember devouring it before getting on to Robert Jordan a few years later. It was probably my first fantasy epic.

I also remember thoroughly enjoying its sequel, the Mallorian. And the sister trilogy the Eleium and it’s sequel trilogy the Tamuli.

All these books fit the themes you described above and have tolkeinien style characters. Though often they become more extraordinary than the hobbits of the shire. I personally prefer that, probably why I enjoy the Wheel of Time.

The secondary casts are also quite interesting. I remember a snake worshiping vizier, a princess, a bevy of knights, ancient sorcerers, rogues, north men and various other party members.

I think I’d definitely be interested to get them on audio book and give them another go.

I lived Eddings as well when younger.

He gets a bit repetitive though if you read him a lot.

Still he cranked those books out.

Magian by Feist count?

Wedding best work was the Elenium imho and Feists the Empire Trilogy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, I mentioned Eddings in my follow-up after yours: also very much enjoyed them. One of the only series that I re-read within a few months of finishing, but this was back when I was in middle school.

I liked the Elenium, although not as much. I also felt like the Mallorean was sort of a re-tread of the Belgariad, although still enjoyable.

I re-read the Belgariad some years ago - I think maybe fifteen? Still very enjoyable, although also was a bit simplistic to my jaded 30ish self. I've thought of re-reading them again at some point.

Think I was 14 when I read them.

Very enjoyable but yeah more if a young adult type book.

Still better than most D&D novels and other fantasy books.

 

[Dioltach]

I agree that Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is among the best. Other examples include the first three of Lloyd Alexander's Prydain books and the first three Shannara novels. (They get a lot of stick nowadays, but back in the late 1970s and early 1980s they essentially codified the genre, by establishing what elements from Tolkien make a good fantasy story.)