The Proper Use of Nudity in FRPG Art

[MGibster]

I realized after posting that I'm letting my US biases show - but really, I'd rather kids weren't buying stuff with lurid art.
Hell, I'd rather not buy lurid art.

That's okay. The truth is I don't really want your kids buying stuff with lurid art in it either. Hell, I'm not really keen on buying gaming books with lurid art in it. Like I said, I'm not really chomping at the bit for games to start adding nudity to the art in their games. I'm just not sure if all nudity is lurid or if its appropriate to protect young people from all of it. I mean, teenagers read books like Push.

 

[GreyLord]

This is a thread that started a long time ago, but here I am, going to put in my two coppers.

Nudity in gaming isn't a bad thing. Nudity in general is not a bad thing.

The PROBLEM is not nudity, it's how it is portrayed. Is there a reason for it, or is it simply to be lurid, sexualize a gender, or show a discriminatorial basis of being shown?

The problem I have with nudity in RPGs is most of the time it falls under the problems with portraying nudity. There is no reason for the nudity to actually be shown. The only reason it shows the nudity is because they are trying to sexualize something or someone (generally it is a woman or girl, and it's not just if they are nude, they can be dressed skimpily or provacatively. That said, though this is usually the type they portray, there are also depictions of men in the same manner which are also distasteful in my opinion). It can also be done to show a form of discrimination against woman or men in the situation they put them in or various other elements.

I think that's the problem with this type of artform in RPGs. It's not ALWAYS a problem, but most of the artwork I've seen that depict nudity in RPGs is for the problematic reasons rather than any useful ones.

That's where the actual problem lies. It's not the nudity itself, as that's a natural form of being and life. It is what the depiction or portrayal is meant to be and the feelings it is meant to raise in others that can be problematic.

I don't mind if my kids see nudity in and of itself. That's a facet of life. I AM bothered if they are seeing it portrayed in certain ways which are not mentally or emotionally healthy (in my opinion...of course).

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I wonder that too (The thread is almost exactly fourteen years old )

What I wish for Christmas is that the tide soon turns - that tabletop rpgs can once again be discussed in similar ways to art,

I am not sure art can be discussed as it was once. Look at the Vienna national museum that opened an account on a porn platorm to protest the banning of the Venus of Willendorf (some other examples of strange reactions to nudity in art here Vienna museums open adult-only OnlyFans account to display nudes -- do not click if you're offended by nudity, the Guardian article features full frontal nudity in an illustration, made by pornlord Egon Schiele.).

literature and film where there's no criteria for acceptability that all works need to please or even respect everybody. In art, literature and film you can have content that titillate or shock; annoy or offend. There you can openly discuss the incorrect and the avant-garde. There, the proper course of action if you dislike something is to ignore it, rather than argue for it to change and conform.

I have just fondly looked back at a bygone era, an era conjured by this very thread; an era where those people that didn't like nudity simply chose games without, instead of demonizing the games with.

Before reaching a turning of the tide, we should reach high tide. I am not sure we're there yet, and the tendancy to go toward a less tolerant world where "live and let live" is no longer a sane motto still has strong legs.

 

[Umbran]

Back in the day, there was a misconception that women weren't going to buy RPG books anyway, so whether the art put them off wasn't considered an issue. But, by WotC's numbers this year, women make up 40% of the D&D player base at this point. And women have been telling us for decades that art depiction as sex objects in games put them off. Choosing to set aside that art has seemed to have a notable positive impact on sales.

The profit margins on RPG materials remain slim. You're asking producers to give up sales for your pleasure. Unless you are going to buy multiple copies to make up for the loss, it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for game publishers.

And, I think that by categorizing is as "they are offended," placing the fault on them, you miss the fact that the industry has been actively engaging in a culture supporting disparity. It is less "they are offended" and more "we have been actively offering offenses" in many ways for a long time. It isn't just the art itself - it is how that art is a sign of lack of respect and failure to understand (or maybe failure to care) about the real issues. If you want to send up a red flag that you don't care, the art is one way to do it.

 

[DWRoelands]

If you want to send up a red flag that you don't care, the art is one way to do it.

Brilliant and concise.

 

[Reynard]

I'll take "Threads That Didn't Age Well" for $1000, Alex. Oof.

Old "Dad" me cringes to read what young "Hot" me had to say on the subject...

 

[Umbran]

Old "Dad" me cringes to read what young "Hot" me had to say on the subject...

I hadn't considered that. This thread is old enough that someone could have said, "Yes, I'd like to see bare breasts in gaming materials" at the start to now have a teenage daughter. Now that might present a change in perspective.

 

[MGibster]

And, I think that by categorizing is as "they are offended," placing the fault on them, you miss the fact that the industry has been actively engaging in a culture supporting disparity.

I would describe myself as being offended by the cover art on those Avalanche Press books but I don't think it implies that I'm the one at fault there.

 

[Umbran]

I would describe myself as being offended by the cover art on those Avalanche Press books but I don't think it implies that I'm the one at fault there.

Then the point doesn't apply to you.

But let us not pretend that, since it doesn't apply to you, that these discussions don't often include the idea that someone is "looking to be offended" or is "too easily offended" or the like.

 

[Reynard]

I hadn't considered that. This thread is old enough that someone could have said, "Yes, I'd like to see bare breasts in gaming materials" at the start to now have a teenage daughter. Now that might present a change in perspective.

Exactly that.

Don't get me wrong, having a daughter has not turned me into a prude, but it has made me more cognizant of elements like consent and objectification in my blood'n'boobs fantasy preferences -- in art, in film/TV, and in RPGs.