D&D 5E Battlesmith3/Bladesinger 8 or Bladesinger 11

[TwoSix]

Generally I would lean full wizard, but this particular game has some caveats.

High array (19/17/15/13/11/11)

One extra feat.

House rule: The last tick of GWM can apply to any 2-handed weapon, not just heavy. (Even ranged!)

This game is fairly short (dozen sessions, going from level 11 to12), and the DM is saying it's going to be on "hard mode" (his words). I have no idea what anyone else is playing, but I know I'll need to bring the damage AND utility.

So I'm contemplating grabbing GWM, using it with a 2 handed longsword whenever I have advantage or low AC target, and/or using bladesong and switching to one hand when I get targeted.

Are there any 5th and 6th level spells I'd be missing out on that make pure bladesinger a better damage option?

 

[Blue]

Battlesmith 3 brings precious little to Bladesinger, unfortunately. It looks good until you compare what parts overlap or are unusable.

First, all your armor proficiency? No good if you want to use bladesinging. You are light armor, no shield maximum. Which also means you need a good DEX for AC.

If you choose an INT to attack subclasses, it's not netting you much because we've already established you need a good DEX, and with 1H weapons only (again, bladesinging restrictions) you can do just as well with finesse as STR based. So it probably gives about a +1 to hit/damage for a 3 level dip.

And that dip means you are always 3 levels behind in spells known, so 1-2 spell levels of your highest level slots you can just use to upcast, you miss the better spells those levels would bring. And you are one elvel behind for spell slots as well.

It's not that it doesn't bring anything. Two infusions are nice, though at 11th character level what you can get may be a bit more utility rather than game changing.

I don't see how the concept of "low HPs, light armor, front lines, and NOT bladesinging so I can use a 2H weapon" works out. The bonus to AC from bladesinging is what makes such a fragile chassis as wizard able to survive on the front lines. You might be able to attack the first round, then immediately drop it and activate bladesinging with your bonus action (so no GWM bonus attack if it came up), but spending time on the front lines without that AC boost will just get the character hurt.

(Source: Playing a pre-Tasha's Bladesinger 1-13 in Avernus.)

 

[TwoSix]

I don't see how the concept of "low HPs, light armor, front lines, and NOT bladesinging so I can use a 2H weapon" works out. The bonus to AC from bladesinging is what makes such a fragile chassis as wizard able to survive on the front lines. You might be able to attack the first round, then immediately drop it and activate bladesinging with your bonus action (so no GWM bonus attack if it came up), but spending time on the front lines without that AC boost will just get the character hurt.

(Source: Playing a pre-Tasha's Bladesinger 1-13 in Avernus.)

No, that all makes sense. My primary thought was using Gr Invis as my primary combat buff, so I have constant tri-vantage (assuming EA as my 2nd feat), making GWM a non-negligible damage upgrade, and alleviating targeting concerns against enemies without an easy way to target me. The main benefit for Battle Smith beyond enabling the EA-GWM combo was to boost my concentration while not bladesinging, with Con save proficiency and the robe infusion.

I was kind of going for more of a "magical swordsman" feel, I guess, but losing spells like Wall of Force and Animate Objects is pretty painful.

I generally love playing gishes, but wizards really come into their own at Tier 3. I'm really just trying to find a solid Tier 3 build that can bring some damage and benefit from the high array the DM wants to use.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think you should go the battlesmith road. I think it sounds fun. With your array you can afford high dex and int and the loss of bladesong is bearable. Your highest spell slots would do into greater invisibility anyway.
I don't think the build is as powerful as a straight wizard, but it is quite funny.

A different route which would be comparable would be just playing a fighter 1/warlock of the undead.

You can just go strength/con/cha with your highest stats and chose pact of the blade. You will have a lot more uses of greater invisibility as a wizard.
Instead of warlock of the undead, you could go blade bard, but here you lose the fighting style benefit. Edit: you can use both on thrown weapons that are light/onehanded. Which can come in handy at times. Maybe your DM allows you to chose from the tasha's optional throwing weapon style which would fit the sowrd bard well.

Edit2:
Of course you can also be a fighter1/level10 bladesinger with heavy armor and 20str/20int.
Then you will use bladesong only if you somehow caught offguard.

 

[Blue]

I think you should go the battlesmith road. I think it sounds fun. With your array you can afford high dex and int and the loss of bladesong is bearable.

If you are going to lose the primary ability of your wizard subclass, choose another subclass. Abjurer for arcane ward perhaps, or War Wizard. When you compare to what you lose vs. choosing a subclass with useable features, you will find that the loss of your subclass feature is not bearable.

Well, "bearable" is such a subjective word, you can "bear" a 3 STR heavy armor two handed weapon fighter if you wanted to. You will find that you are giving up a significant amount.

 

[TwoSix]

For the record, I did end up going Bladesinger 11; no one else in the party decided to go full caster so I knew we would need one.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If you are going to lose the primary ability of your wizard subclass, choose another subclass. Abjurer for arcane ward perhaps, or War Wizard. When you compare to what you lose vs. choosing a subclass with useable features, you will find that the loss of your subclass feature is not bearable.

Well, "bearable" is such a subjective word, you can "bear" a 3 STR heavy armor two handed weapon fighter if you wanted to. You will find that you are giving up a significant amount.

I thought about the abjurer. But they don't get extra attack and don't work. The bladesinger extra attack is special and does increase damage quite a bit.

To the "bearable": it is not optimized, and it is obvious.
But from my own character who took a very strange route, right now it is arcane trickster3, sword bard5 and divine sorcerer3. I know that is terrible from an optimization point of view. But he had terrible rolled stats to begin with and was in a two person party for most of his career. Right now he uses upcast shadow blade as his main attack and quicken spell for quite a bit of damage.
Ritual caster allows for some nice things, as do some magic items.

 

[ECMO3]

Generally I would lean full wizard, but this particular game has some caveats.

High array (19/17/15/13/11/11)

One extra feat.

House rule: The last tick of GWM can apply to any 2-handed weapon, not just heavy. (Even ranged!)

This game is fairly short (dozen sessions, going from level 11 to12), and the DM is saying it's going to be on "hard mode" (his words). I have no idea what anyone else is playing, but I know I'll need to bring the damage AND utility.

So I'm contemplating grabbing GWM, using it with a 2 handed longsword whenever I have advantage or low AC target, and/or using bladesong and switching to one hand when I get targeted.

Are there any 5th and 6th level spells I'd be missing out on that make pure bladesinger a better damage option?

I think qa single-class bladesinger is far better.

I don't think there is a lot of value here. The bladesinger extra attack in Tasha's is pretty awesome and if that is what you are looking for, I can see you doing that with heavy armor and a heavy weapon but I don't think it is worth it because it needs a feat as well to make it well. So you are giving up all you get with Bladesong, an ASI for GWF and Song of Defense.

It will work, but it is a lot to give up. In terms of AC you won't be far ahead of a traditional bladesinger, and not ahead at all at high levels. Additionally, your dexterity saves will be poor, and when you start fighting dragons and such you are going to want BOTH absorb elements and a decent dex save. You are also not getting the movement and concentration buffs you get with bladesong. You are giving up all that plus trading an ASI for a feat to do a few more DPR.

If you want more damage, I think in terms of feats there are better ways to go - piercer, Fey touched with Hex, Figthing Intiate and Gift of the Gem Dragon can all give a damage boost and work well with bladesong. Most of them are half feats too that you can simultaneously use to boost dex or intelligence.

You don't get a 6th level spell in your build, which means no contingency. This is like gold on a Bladesinger enabling an emergency buff when things go sideways (I like 5th level false life on contingency, but other spells work too).

Finally, you lose Song of Defense. This is not used all the time and is expensive to use but when you need it there is no equal. This turns spell slots into hit points, and when you count your spell slots at 10th level this means you have a well of potential hps larger than a Barbarian. It uses a reaction, so you are not going to use it a lot or when something cheaper works (shield, absorb elements), but when an enemy crits you it is very useful.