D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

[Maxperson]

Okay, I give up... you can argue what every you want (and again arguing that a dagger from the weapon table isn't a weapon is ALSO what me and the guys were like in HS). This is just dumb at this point. You want to have guards armed (and maybe armored for a fight) when off duity, you want PCs to always be armed 'just in case' it is not a way of playing I am interested in

That's fine. Different strokes for different folks and all that. I can tell you as an absolute fact, though, that I do not play your high school style of play. You described it above and it's nothing like how I play.

 

[Lanefan]

the style where you can leave no door unopened, no treasure unfound, and no monster undeafeated.

A fine style of play. I endorse it heartily!

for years we have cleared SOME dungeons totally, but we have somewhere around as many (maybe slightly less) where we reached an objective, or found ourselves too low on resources and left. Very rarely in 20 years (and I don't think at all in the last 5) has an objective of any adventure been to kill all enemies or collect all the treasure.

Doesn't matter how many enemies you have to kill, getting all the loot is always at the very least a strong sub-objective of any mission.

I mean, hell, it's not like someone's paying us by the hour to be out here.

My PCs will always have at least a dagger on them. Too many times something has happened at parties to make it worth the risk to attend one without the ability to defend myself.

came from a time when EVERY PC we played HAD to have a weapon just in case. As we grew up and most of us walk around with weapons so we realised neither would most our characters...

In some parts of the world a great many people do walk around armed; and in a typical D&D setting where most problems are solved by either violence or magic, walking around armed seems to only make sense.

 

[Lanefan]

and again I disagree with your idea of reasonable being "carrying weapons to every social gathering"

To what social gathering does James Bond - a modern-day adventurer in many ways - not take at least one gun?

 

[HammerMan]

Doesn't matter how many enemies you have to kill, getting all the loot is always at the very least a strong sub-objective of any mission.

Money is such a weird motivation... almost every adventurer in it for money would retire WAY early in there career... you can live like a tradesman for a few gold a month and if you have 500gp you can live as a human at the level of a tradesman lives for your natural life. If you have 1,000gp you can (with maybe occasional work or growing food) probably live as an elf for half your life.
Mean while 1 or 2 magic items could sell for thousands of gold, and I have seen 4th or 5th level adventurers have 10-50 thousand gold (normally in gems and PP). If money is what you want you can live like a modern millionaire (if not billion) way before you get past 7th level...

and that is if you don't want to work at all. Be a spell caster trained class and make potions scrolls and you can retire by 3rd level.

I mean, hell, it's not like someone's paying us by the hour to be out here.

again money seems like a weird motivation. I regularly play charcters that when bartenders tell us it is 8cp or 2sp depending on the drink, throws down a few gp or a pp and say "Drinks for the night and keep the change"

In some parts of the world a great many people do walk around armed;

In slums or active war zones maybe... if you are at a party (a high society one in the example we are discussing) you would be hard pressed to find many (Im not saying none) weapons.

and in a typical D&D setting where most problems are solved by either violence or magic, walking around armed seems to only make sense.

problems in the wilderness may be solved by violence... but I have not seen one in high society done so in decades.

 

[Lanefan]

Money is such a weird motivation... almost every adventurer in it for money would retire WAY early in there career... you can live like a tradesman for a few gold a month and if you have 500gp you can live as a human at the level of a tradesman lives for your natural life. If you have 1,000gp you can (with maybe occasional work or growing food) probably live as an elf for half your life.
Mean while 1 or 2 magic items could sell for thousands of gold, and I have seen 4th or 5th level adventurers have 10-50 thousand gold (normally in gems and PP). If money is what you want you can live like a modern millionaire (if not billion) way before you get past 7th level...

Indeed, if one compares oneself to the common folk then an adventurer is rich by 3rd level.

But - as in real life - one's point of comparison often becomes one's peers; meaning it's no longer a question of "Am I richer than the common folk" but instead "Am I richer than these other adventurers I run with".

Also, and in fairness 5e has done away with a lot of this so it might not apply there, adventuring is an expensive trade as well. Training costs, sacrifices and donations, taxes in some settings, costs of getting repairing spells cast e.g. Raise Dead, Restoration, etc. - all these add up, and are costs a commoner never has to worry about (well, other than taxes). And that's before other quasi-related costs e.g. stronghold or base construction, high living, bribes, payoffs, etc.

and that is if you don't want to work at all. Be a spell caster trained class and make potions scrolls and you can retire by 3rd level.

Potion-making kicks in at higher level in my game, but yes, there's stay-at-home NPC types who have done exactly this.

again money seems like a weird motivation. I regularly play charcters that when bartenders tell us it is 8cp or 2sp depending on the drink, throws down a few gp or a pp and say "Drinks for the night and keep the change"

Sure, me too. But if you ain't got the money you can't do that, hm?

In slums or active war zones maybe... if you are at a party (a high society one in the example we are discussing) you would be hard pressed to find many (Im not saying none) weapons.

problems in the wilderness may be solved by violence... but I have not seen one in high society done so in decades.

Depends on the setting, I suppose.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean, hell, it's not like someone's paying us by the hour to be out here.

This is true. Adventurers are usually salaried. "You'll get 300 to divide up if you return successfully." Plus there's very little in the way of health insurance or worker's comp.

 

[Maxperson]

Money is such a weird motivation... almost every adventurer in it for money would retire WAY early in there career... you can live like a tradesman for a few gold a month and if you have 500gp you can live as a human at the level of a tradesman lives for your natural life. If you have 1,000gp you can (with maybe occasional work or growing food) probably live as an elf for half your life.
Mean while 1 or 2 magic items could sell for thousands of gold, and I have seen 4th or 5th level adventurers have 10-50 thousand gold (normally in gems and PP). If money is what you want you can live like a modern millionaire (if not billion) way before you get past 7th level...

To live like a noble(aristocrat) is at a minimum, 10g per day for food, clothing, etc. 10g per day for maintenance of your noble estate. 600g per month and includes nothing extra. No parties. No hosting contests. Nothing. 600g per month at a bare minimum. Going with 10,000(I've never seen anyone get even that much by level 5), you have about 17 months of money.

D&D 5E - Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level

Page 133 of the *DMG* tells us how many treasure hoards a party is expected to find over the course of a typical campaign. If we make a few assumptions, we can use this information to estimate how much wealth a character has accumulated at each level of his career. My assumptions going into...

www.enworld.org

Be a spell caster trained class and make potions scrolls and you can retire by 3rd level.

IF the DM allows it. And IF the PC can find or come up with the correct formula. And IF the PC can find the components needed. And IF the PC spends 4 days and 100g(DMG page 129) on the potion, he can sell it for 25-50gp(50-100gp x 1/2 for consumable - DMG page 135) IF he can even readily find a buyer. A minor permanent item might get you 100g if you get lucky. You need to have an exceedingly generous DM in order to make a decent living.

Better to just go adventuring.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

This is true. Adventurers are usually salaried. "You'll get 300 to divide up if you return successfully." Plus there's very little in the way of health insurance or worker's comp.

That whole ploy of some 'quest giver' rolling out "AND I'll let you keep half the treasure!" always amused me. Like, how are you going to collect your half? You want to try to get that armed murder-hobo who's clearly higher level than you are (or why would you hire him) to give up even 1gp? Good luck! Same with taxes, just try to tax me, suckers! Its a conceit that makes exactly zero sense, pretty much ever.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

To live like a noble(aristocrat) is at a minimum, 10g per day for food, clothing, etc. 10g per day for maintenance of your noble estate. 600g per month and includes nothing extra. No parties. No hosting contests. Nothing. 600g per month at a bare minimum. Going with 10,000(I've never seen anyone get even that much by level 5), you have about 17 months of money.

D&D 5E - Deconstructing 5e: Typical Wealth by Level

Page 133 of the *DMG* tells us how many treasure hoards a party is expected to find over the course of a typical campaign. If we make a few assumptions, we can use this information to estimate how much wealth a character has accumulated at each level of his career. My assumptions going into...

www.enworld.org

IF the DM allows it. And IF the PC can find or come up with the correct formula. And IF the PC can find the components needed. And IF the PC spends 4 days and 100g(DMG page 129) on the potion, he can sell it for 25-50gp(50-100gp x 1/2 for consumable - DMG page 135) IF he can even readily find a buyer. A minor permanent item might get you 100g if you get lucky. You need to have an exceedingly generous DM in order to make a decent living.

Better to just go adventuring.

Yeah, and all those numbers are nonsensical rubbish, too. So, lets imagine the market for potions, there are none because it is unprofitable to sell them at 'current prices'. So what exactly ARE these current prices, and how are they set? They sure aren't MARKET prices, because those are set by the law of supply and demand... We can imagine some 'overlord' who enforces certain prices, but then why do adventurers exist at all if he can just impose his will on them? He can obviously quite easily just take care of monsters, etc. without needing to put up with murder-hobos.

The whole concept is laughable. We could also just as easily deconstruct the whole cost of living argument. If a pleasantly secure income is 10gp per month, then 100gp per month is a 10x multiple on that. Clearly you can afford to employ several of these 10gp/month guys (or even less well-paid ones like peasants that might live on 5gp). This means you can enjoy the fruits of several people's labor at the 100gp/month level, which by any definition is certainly well-off!

As for any of the other expenses you posit, why are they mandatory? Sure, some super rich guy might ACTUALLY spend that kind of money, it isn't a law of nature! So it seems to me the original "money doesn't make sense as a motive for adventurers" kind of holds water pretty well!

Of course, we can easily destroy THAT too, with more basic economics, but why spoil everone's fun This is why I NEVER attempt to apply 'logic' of ANY KIND except 'story logic' to RPGs. Once you start, its all downhill from there...

 

[Maxperson]

That whole ploy of some 'quest giver' rolling out "AND I'll let you keep half the treasure!" always amused me. Like, how are you going to collect your half? You want to try to get that armed murder-hobo who's clearly higher level than you are (or why would you hire him) to give up even 1gp? Good luck! Same with taxes, just try to tax me, suckers! Its a conceit that makes exactly zero sense, pretty much ever.

Yeah. I much prefer a small amount of pay and you keep what you find as incentives. Minus any particular item the party is being sent for anyway.