D&D 5E D&D Races: Evolution, Fantasy Stereotypes & Escapism

[FrogReaver]

I'm pretty sure most of us can. Implying others here can't would be inane, so I assume that's not what you're doing.

If you (and most others) can separate fantasy from reality then why does it matter whether what happens in fantasy is similar to what happens in reality?

The problem is that it's applied by some (including pretty famous popular politicians) to any African American males they don't like, regardless of if they're doing anything criminal. And it's used to stereotype the entire age group.

Yes - False generalizations are a problem. Let's judge people as the individuals they are.

 

[Scribe]

We've always known words that are impermissible to say. They used to be everyday words, and now they're not.

Then there were the problematic words. You could say them, but at your own risk. This is not exclusive to D&D community. I don't say "guys" at work anymore. We say "hey folks" or "hey team" at work. There was sensitivity training around this. Up here in Canada, all the big companies were doing this.

Now add a host of racially charged words. Welcome to 2020s. Racially charged words as problem words are here to stay. Might as well get used to it. It just takes time.

George Carlin, and 7 Words.

Carry on with the conversation folks.

 

[Cadence]

If you (and most others) can separate fantasy from reality then why does it matter whether what happens in fantasy is similar to what happens in reality?

I'm guessing that when horrifically bad things have happened to people or there grandparents or their ancestors, some might view it as appalling to see very similar behavior held up as good? I mean, I'm assuming you're not claiming that having the players carry out graphic rape or re-enacting the holocaust as the Nazi's as part of a game is just fine because all those participating can tell fantasy from reality?

And because media portrayals seem to matter in practice:

Media Portrayals and Black Male Outcomes

A social science literature review focusing on the question of how media, and communications more broadly, affect outcomes for black men and boys in American society.

www.opportunityagenda.org

Negative Racial Stereotypes and Their Effect on Attitudes Toward African-Americans - Scholarly Essays - Jim Crow Museum

<I assume google has more about other groups>

Yes - False generalizations are a problem. Let's judge people as the individuals they are.

Exactly. As individuals instead of as entire races/species.

 

[Cadence]

George Carlin, and 7 Words.

Carry on with the conversation folks.

Oooh, tell us what they are here so we don't have to go google them.

 

[Scribe]

Oooh, tell us what they are here so we don't have to go google them.

Thats part of the joke.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm guessing that when horrifically bad things have happened to people or there grandparents or their ancestors, some might view it as appalling to see very similar behavior held up as good?

But it's really fundamentally different. Those actual groups really weren't savages. The fantasy race really is.

 

[Scribe]

I mean, I'm assuming you're not claiming that having the players carry out graphic rape or re-enacting the holocaust as the Nazi's as part of a game is just fine because all those participating can tell fantasy from reality?

Look, do you believe these are equal to referring to a group of fantasy beings as savage?

 

[Malmuria]

If you (and most others) can separate fantasy from reality then why does it matter whether what happens in fantasy is similar to what happens in reality?.

I don’t understand this line of argumentation. Have you never read a book, or watched a film or play, and been deeply invested in the fiction? In what happens to the characters, the way they navigate moral dilemmas? When you bring any themes into the fiction of your game, you are asking your players to take them and their characters reaction to them seriously. Now, the tone of that fiction might be lighthearted, either comical or cartoony or action-heavy. You might see both the characters and villains more as game pieces, like if you were playing a board game, than as characters with any dimension. But the premise that it might be the former, that the fiction (yes, even fiction involving elves and such) might reflect upon reality, is certainly not outlandish. And you can’t necessarily predict how players will respond, despite whatever you intend.

For example, would you

• include a graphic torture scene in your game, or skip past it?
• include a sexual assault scene in your game?
• if running a modern game, say Call of Cthulhu, play characters who use racial or religious slurs?

Obviously, you would think twice (at least) before doing any of the above. The fact that the game world and the campaign is fictional, and in that sense separate from reality, does not mean that you would include any and everything without thinking of the consequences it may have for people at the table.

 

[Faolyn]

If they had not been applied with misguided negative intent, now laden with racism after decades of colonialism and genocide, would it matter if you called your Orcs that live in mud/stick homes, primitive? Can we describe a FICTIONAL group of beings which are distinctly not human, as savage, or brutal, or are these things now forbidden simply because someone applied the words wrong before?

Can we have a society which is seen by some as lawless, or because that was falsely used to describe a real peoples, thats now simply not to be done?

TLDR: Are we as thinking people able to identify when something was wrong before, and understand that it's use in a fictional sense, is not the same as when it was wrongly used before.

Is the game actually hindered in any way by finding other words to describe races beyond using loaded terminology? Is it improved by using those words?

Do "primitive" orcs also have a rich tradition of handicrafts and oral history, an important kinship system, an animist or pantheistic religion, and live in general isolation from "civilized" people do, as per the actual (albeit no longer used) anthropological definition of "primitive"?

Or is "primitive" just a code word for "evil so you can kill on sight?"

 

[Cadence]

Look, do you believe these are equal to referring to a group of fantasy beings as savage?

It sounded like the argument was that "it's fantasy and not reality and we can tell them apart' covered everything, and I was checking if that was what was meant.

Is it bad to call them savage? I guess it depends. Are they living on land the demi-human want for expansion? Do their clothes or appearance or culture mimic the first nations or African peoples? Are they sentient and the women and children are going to be killed to?