Where do you like to see your art dollars in a ttrpg book?

[Jd Smith1]

I was in the US Army, I think I think I've seen weapons before. And I don't pay for art, so if you can find somebody to do this better for me, for free, send them over, otherwise, I'm just happy that include content that other designers always forget to include!

I would rather have no art than poor art. You get what you pay for.

 

[gamerprinter]

Agreed, and people keep paying for my stuff, so they seem to be getting both what they want and what they're paying for - it's a win win.

And I don't just make stuff for me, I'm freelance, I've got over 1800 published maps, ilustrations and some story content - even the pros seem to want it, go figure...

Oh, and by the way, half of those illustrated weapons are barely altered versions of real weapons, if you look closely the sniper rifle, while the forward is different, the receiver is exactly a Barret's 50 caliber. It's based on a real weapon - maybe barrets consider their design poor art??

That big gun on the bottom, the micro-singularity cannon (its a hand-held anti-starship weapon), it's so damn big and unwieldy, but it's a weapon designed to be carried by a power armor soldier one-handed, so it fits it's design.

Edit: if anybody is wondering what I'm talking about - I was having an "argument" with some vitriolic poster, but now all his comments have been deleted, so this just looks like a weird, one-sided conversation. Apologies for that.

 

[gamerprinter]

The hand grenades are a bit wacko, I agree, but there's always that problem of reaching into your grenade satchel, in the dark, and you cannot see if you are getting the right grenade for the right situation - if you want to throw something non-lethal, don't throw a frag grenade. So I made the shapes of all the grenades different, so it would less problematic in finding the correct grenade, while the under stress of being under fire - they look wacky, but there's a reason for it.

I put thought in all my design. But you're welcome not to like it, yourself.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So if you have a budget for art and you want to split up between

• cover
• character classes
• character races
• monsters
• miscellaneous throughout the book
• etc

Yes.

That's where I like to see it, in those places.

Honestly, if a game has good-to-great art and/or lots of it I will pay easily double over what I will for no or weak art. Sufficiently bad art will actively make me avoid a game unless I have direct strong recommendations from RL people I trust. No art is literally better than bad art or clip art. And I agree with those saying "pick a lane" re: colour or not colour. Most of the best TTRPG art is black & white, but there's also excellent colour stuff. Don't waste money on things like colour plates except maybe for maps.

I would say cover is probably the least important for me, because, well, most covers suck, and I mostly buy books digitally now.

Also with maps, please for god's sake go with function over form and clarity over detail. It's okay if the map is "in-setting" to have it pretty stylized, but it should be clear at least. I totally loathe ultra-detailed full-colour maps where you can barely make anything out or where 99% of the map is a distraction.

The only other major point is, if you have a weird-looking or unusual monster, for god's sake illustrate it.

 

[Jd Smith1]

The hand grenades are a bit wacko, I agree, but there's always that problem of reaching into your grenade satchel, in the dark, and you cannot see if you are getting the right grenade for the right situation - if you want to throw something non-lethal, don't throw a frag grenade. So I made the shapes of all the grenades different, so it would less problematic in finding the correct grenade, while the under stress of being under fire - they look wacky, but there's a reason for it.

I put thought in all my design. But you're welcome not to like it, yourself.

Thanks for the permission. When did the US Army start issuing grenade 'satchels'? We carried them in pouches.

The different shapes-in-the-dark could work, but why did some look like dog chew toys? And why are some brightly colored? Wouldn't it make sense to ensure that they were of similar size, so they would all fit in a standard pouch?

After all, how many of different types would you need? We used frags, smoke (no confusing those two), and occasional WP, which were too heavy to be confused with smoke.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Agreed, and people keep paying for my stuff, so they seem to be getting both what they want and what they're paying for - it's a win win.

And I don't just make stuff for me, I'm freelance, I've got over 1800 published maps, ilustrations and some story content - even the pros seem to want it, go figure...

Oh, and by the way, half of those illustrated weapons are barely altered versions of real weapons, if you look closely the sniper rifle, while the forward is different, the receiver is exactly a Barret's 50 caliber. It's based on a real weapon - maybe barrets consider their design poor art??

That big gun on the bottom, the micro-singularity cannon (its a hand-held anti-starship weapon), it's so damn big and unwieldy, but it's a weapon designed to be carried by a power armor soldier one-handed, so it fits it's design.

I take it you've never handled a Barrett in real life. Its a very bad copy of one by a very poor artist.

Congrats on your publishing history. If we didn't have countless threads here about how poorly RPG workers are being paid, I would say your future is assured.

 

[gamerprinter]

I would say cover is probably the least important for me, because, well, most covers suck, and I mostly buy books digitally now.

Also with maps, please for god's sake go with function over form and clarity over detail. It's okay if the map is "in-setting" to have it pretty stylized, but it should be clear at least. I totally loathe ultra-detailed full-colour maps where you can barely make anything out or where 99% of the map is a distraction.

The only other major point is, if you have a weird-looking or unusual monster, for god's sake illustrate it.

On the first point, it shouldn't be less important, because in your experience cover art sucks (which it may be), it's still very important. It's like the cover on anything, it's the first thing the buyer see's usually, and even digital content has thumbnails of the cover art. I think it's crucial and when I'm paying for art, the cover art is the most expensive piece (short of maps, but I do all my maps).

On the second, then you'll probably hate all my maps - they're all color (I've done one grayscale map on commission, because the publisher asked for it), but even my color maps in grayscale look fine (not all art looks right when done gray instead of color). I'm a detail man, so publishers even let me add content to the floor that isn't in the author's work, nor the rough draft - it just fits the setting. Some of my work is hand-drawn based, but most is either completely vector (although still looks in Photoshop or something), and I'm starting to make fully 3D maps. But you can easily deliniate the details... but yeah, arguably, you might call it distraction. Here's the kind detail I put in my maps - this is hybrid vector and 3D. (Though this is for post-apocalyse).

And to the third, of course you must, fully agreed...

 

[gamerprinter]

I take it you've never handled a Barrett in real life. Its a very bad copy of one by a very poor artist.

Congrats on your publishing history. If we didn't have countless threads here about how poorly RPG workers are being paid, I would say your future is assured.

I'm retired. This is a retirement hobby, that turned into a profit stream - it's not about getting rich (I don't care about that). I don't work for free, but I don't charge a lot, but it's for my fun, and for others. I'm not in it for the money. It's really not about the fans either, though I'm glad they are there. I'm a creator and must create, that's all this is about. (If no one bought my stuff, I'd still do it.)

I don't know about other RPG workers though I publish for 3 besides myself (I split the profts 50:50 with my writers, isn't that a decent deal?), but I've worked for Paizo once, Legendary Games more than 400 times (different map commissions), I've done work for Kobold Press, Purple Duck Games, Rite Pubishing, Iron Crown Enterprises, FASA Games, EN Publishing, EN5ider, Wayfinder (everybody), and I did all the multi-player maps for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Strategy Guide, which I'd call mainstream work. Over 14 years working the industry, I've been paid a lot, but each year was just modest earnings - cumulatively, it's quite a bit though... for a retirement hobby.

 

[Jd Smith1]

On the first point, it shouldn't be less important, because in your experience cover art sucks (which it may be), it's still very important. It's like the cover on anything, it's the first thing the buyer see's usually, and even digital content has thumbnails of the cover art. I think it's crucial and when I'm paying for art, the cover art is the most expensive piece (short of maps, but I do all my maps).

On the second, then you'll probably hate all my maps - they'rer all color (I've done one grayscale map on commission, because the publisher asked for it), but even my color maps in grayscale look fine (not all art looks right when done gray instead of color). I'm a detail man, so publishers even let me add content to the floor that isn't in the author's work, nor the rough draft. Some of my work is hand-drawn based, but most is either completely vector (although still looks in Photoshop or something), and I'm starting to make fully 3D maps. But you can easily deliniate the details... but yeah, arguably, you might call it distraction. Here's the kind detail I put in my maps - this is hybrid vector and 3D. (Though this is for post-apocalyse).

View attachment 152202

That's not bad; a bit basic, but acceptable, if free. With the exception of Onne's (the only maps I'll pay for), I only use color maps. I get my maps for free off Reddit and DeviantArt. Thousands of truly exceptional free maps there: View attachment Sewer 002.jpg

 

[gamerprinter]

That's not bad; a bit basic, but acceptable, if free. With the exception of Onne's (the only maps I'll pay for), I only use color maps. I get my maps for free off Reddit and DeviantArt. Thousands of truly exceptional free maps there: View attachment 152204

I give away free products too!

And people post my maps to Reddit too without my permission. And I have a DeviantArt account with free content there too. But my published products come with a 300 ppi layered PDF map for printing, a 70 ppi version for Roll20, a 100 ppi version for other VTT - and scaled properly. A map posted on reddit is somewhat reduced from it's original size. It's free, but it's less quality than the paid for version.