D&D General Could Improv (and maybe Theatre) save your Roleplaying???

[TheAlkaizer]

I've been involved with improv for 25 years and I long for the day when more people start thinking of D&D as a long-form improv exercise rather than a board game to win. LOL.

I also know I'm going to be waiting a looooooooooooooooong time for that.

I'd argue that the newer generations of player are already looking for something similar. We probably don't live in the same country, cities and are of different age, but the social circles around me have ton of new players brought to the game through Critical Role and they're pretty uninterested in the game itself, they really want to roleplay and act out their character, go through drama and create a large spanning story.

I don't mind these games, I actually enjoy it. But it's also been very hard to get some 5E campaign more focused on the game, its mechanics and what they can offer; the crowd around me is not really interested.

 

[Shiroiken]

I've been involved with improv for 25 years and I long for the day when more people start thinking of D&D as a long-form improv exercise rather than a board game to win. LOL.

RPGs are not improv, although improv is an important element. There will always be a "game" element; it's in the name, after all. While you cannot "win" at an RPG, the purpose is to achieve certain goals as determined by the adventure, character, and player, and achieving those goals is a form of winning (if an only temporary victory).

One of the greatest challenges to role-playing for many players is developing a comfort of just "going with it", making up a character/concept on the spur of the moment, and such.

At tournaments back in the day, you were given a pregenerated character that had a background a general personality. Part of the tournament was roleplaying that particular character, and going against the listed information cost you points. I always found this really interesting, since it forced you as a player to look outside of your default views. Unfortunately from what I've seen, the idea of playing a character you didn't create seems anathema to modern gamers.

 

[HammerMan]

RPGs are not improv, although improv is an important element. There will always be a "game" element; it's in the name, after all. While you cannot "win" at an RPG, the purpose is to achieve certain goals as determined by the adventure, character, and player, and achieving those goals is a form of winning (if an only temporary victory).

yes this is why I interjected my 'not always' bit... I hate when people go so far in one direction or the other that D&D to them is only 1 thing when it is a mix... having a background in theater helps... but like I said up thread, so does a background in history, physics philosophy and more... but it is also a game, like local poker night or sitting down to play chess or monopoly...

At tournaments back in the day, you were given a pregenerated character that had a background a general personality. Part of the tournament was roleplaying that particular character, and going against the listed information cost you points. I always found this really interesting, since it forced you as a player to look outside of your default views. Unfortunately from what I've seen, the idea of playing a character you didn't create seems anathema to modern gamers.

This was true at Gen Con as recently as the 1st year 4e was out (although it was already rare). I mostly remember these tournaments from 3.5 days, and I have heard stories of ones from 1e and 2e but never saw them.

 

[Ovinomancer]

A potentially useful article for the discussion:

Six Cultures of Play

A blog about roleplaying games and theory focused on Mythras, Dungeons and Dragons, and OSR games.

retiredadventurer.blogspot.com

Not going to say this is 100% correct, but it has some serious food for thought if considered in that light.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Reminds me of the rock-monster scene in Galaxy Quest.

"You need to figure out its motivation."

"It's a rock, it doesn't have any motivation!"

"Oh, this is so typical, you were never serious about the craft!"

Also later is the movie: Who writes this crap!!??!!

 

[iserith]

And that's the advantage of actually taking improv classes... (general) you learn very quickly how to share the stage and always try to make your scene partner look good. So the potential valid issues presented here are lessened if not actually removed when (general) you bring those philosophies to the game table.

I absolutely agree. My regular group is very much in the "Yes, and..." mode and sharing the spotlight, setting up others to succeed and shine, and looking for opportunities to take the emerging story into interesting places. It makes the game so much easier in my view and leads to great emerging story outcomes. It doesn't even need to be in conflict with being good at the strategic and tactical aspects of the game. One can be both good at improvising with others and making optimal choices in context.

I try to instill this in less frequent games or pickup games with strangers. Often they walk away with a perception that the "my" game runs so smoothly and quickly compared to their regular games. Well, it's nothing I'm doing all that new - it's just helping the players get out of their own and each other's way!

I used to share this blog post quite a lot back in the day. Maybe it will be of use to some folks here: Stanislavski vs. Brecht in Tabletop Roleplaying.

 

[DEFCON 1]

RPGs are not improv, although improv is an important element. There will always be a "game" element; it's in the name, after all.

Indeed. And I'm waiting and hoping for the day when more people move it further towards the former rather than get so hung up on the rules and balance of the latter.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Indeed. And I'm waiting and hoping for the day when more people move it further towards the former rather than get so hung up on the rules and balance of the latter.

LARPing?

Joining/starting a Radio Show?

Improv itself?

That stuff already exists.

 

[DEFCON 1]

LARPing?

Joining/starting a Radio Show?

Improv itself?

That stuff already exists.

Yep. And strategic combat board games also exist. So we have both ends of Dungeons & Dragons covered.

So the question then to ask is where should D&D fall between the improv-based LARPing and the tactical dice and minis combat board games of say Warhammer 40K? Personally... I think D&D's (and all RPGs) strengths are the opportunity for character embodiment and action and drama in a contained setting at a table at someone's house... which is the same place of ease you can play Warhammer or all those other board games. Whereas LARPing or improv comedy usually requires a theater and/or large open spaces.

Thus if you are going to be at someone's house every week to play a dice combat game and strategy and balance in the game are of greatest importance for you... there are better choices than D&D to get that. Whereas if you want to exhibit your drama and character muscles at someone's house every week... you aren't going to get much better than an RPG. And that's why I think D&D is better when it leans into that direction.

Just my opinion.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Yep. And strategic combat board games also exist. So we have both ends of Dungeons & Dragons covered.

So the question then to ask is where should D&D fall between the improv-based LARPing and the tactical dice and minis combat board games of say Warhammer 40K? Personally... I think D&D's (and all RPGs) strengths are the opportunity for character embodiment and action and drama in a contained setting at a table at someone's house... which is the same place of ease you can play Warhammer or all those other board games. Whereas LARPing or improv comedy usually requires a theater and/or large open spaces.

Thus if you are going to be at someone's house every week to play a dice combat game and strategy and balance in the game are of greatest importance for you... there are better choices than D&D to get that. Whereas if you want to exhibit your drama and character muscles at someone's house every week... you aren't going to get much better than an RPG. And that's why I think D&D is better when it leans into that direction.

Just my opinion.

To (sort of) quote an episode of Cowboy Bebop, "I am both, and neither at the same time."