D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

It is curious, but I imagine Greyhawk as one of those fantasy videogames what want to imitate the look retro of the 80's, the spirit of Saturday morning, but with the necessary updated touch (for example adding more no-Caucasian characters).


It is strange but I would rather Greyhawk before FR. It is as if I was the hipster of D&D, I would rather things rejected by the majority.

FR is more popular and famous thanks the videogames, and because it is more detailed. Some continents in Greyhawk are practically unknown or unexplored. This may be an advantage because filling empty spaces should be easier than explaining the reasons of a recton. For example the martial adepts could be added telling they are from the Celestial Empire in the East, or the totemist shamans are from the tropical zone.
 

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Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Wait, they were kind of like SPECTRE or the League of Assassins? That's awesome! I only came across them in 3e and thought the public facing Nazis was a bit dumb (my opinion only). Shadowy groups that use intermediaries are much more fun.

The Scarlet Brotherhood, in the original, was a shadowy organization about which almost nothing was known except that it had a tripartite caste structure (with thieves at the bottom, assassins in the middle, and monks at the top), that it had a walled fortress somewhere on the remote plateau, and that it had spies and agents embedded in the other nations.

Oh, and that it was evil and claimed superiority for the Suloise race.

It is said that an order of monastic religious militarists was founded long ago on the remote plateau south of the closed city of Kro Terlep. This order is purported to espouse the cause of the Suloise as the rightful rulers of all the Flanaess, claiming superiority of that
race above all others, and embracing evil as the only hope of achieving its ends. Supposedly the Scarlet Brotherhood is the fruition of these aims, and it now controls the whole of the land from the Vast Swamp to the tip of the peninsula. Brothers of the Scarlet Sign are reportedly hiding as trusted advisors or henchmen in many courts and castles in the north, spying for their master and ready to strike.

The Brotherhood is tripartite according to tales told, with thieves at its lower ring, assassins next, and then the smallest and highest ring of monks as superior. The leader of the thieves is called "Elder Cousin," that of the assassins is known as "Foster Uncle" - thus other thieves are entitled "cousins" and assassins "nephews.''

The temple and monastery of the Scarlet Brotherhood is supposedly a fortress and walled town unto itself, guarded by soldiers. humanoid legions which are being readied for future conquest and monsters trained to serve the Brotherhood.


-The Scarlet Brotherhood by Gygax, Greyhawk Campaign Setting at 33.



One theme I have had running through Greyhawk Campaigns is a twist on the Gygaxian humanocentric idea. In my Greyhawk, there is a lot of strife between humans and other races (or between some races, such as the traditional dwarf/elf divide, or drow/elf divide) - the reason for this isn't any kind of "natural inclination," but because of long-ago efforts by the Suloise, continued now in secret by the Scarlet Brotherhood, to flame and stoke divisions for their own end. Even now in my Greyhawk, you have agents of the Scarlet Sign amongst the Drow, the Duregar, and so many others continuing to subtly (and not so subtly if need be) alienate them from others.

Or, to put it another way, "Where there's smoke, there's racist Nazi monks flaming the fires."

(That said, I think that particular subject matter would be a little much for a general WoTC offering ...)
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Or, to put it another way, "Where there's smoke, there's racist Nazi monks flaming the fires."

(That said, I think that particular subject matter would be a little much for a general WoTC offering ...)

Oh, I don't know, seems like the PERFECT time for such an offering! Though that opinion may be a bit to close to RW politics for this board (and if so, sorry!)
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Oh, I don't know, seems like the PERFECT time for such an offering! Though that opinion may be a bit to close to RW politics for this board (and if so, sorry!)

It's actually really cool, and kind of subversive to the whole humanocentric thing ...

But I'm pretty sure WoTC would want to avoid racism, even fantasy racism, with all the 10' poles you can buy in the Free City of Greyhawk.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
I might be easily misremembering, but I'm not so convinced that WotC pushed all that hard for Greyhawk in the 3e days. Sure, it was the "default" setting, but except for the names of the deities in the manuals, it actually meant very little. OTOH, the Forgotten Realms were actually pushed quite extensively, as I recall.

In the 3.5 days, Paizo tried to push GH in the magazines (Dragon and Dungeon), but WotC was a bit cold about it, and Paizo had to "sneak" the references in the adventures.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
It's actually really cool, and kind of subversive to the whole humanocentric thing ...

But I'm pretty sure WoTC would want to avoid racism, even fantasy racism, with all the 10' poles you can buy in the Free City of Greyhawk.

I agree.

WoTC is likely well aware that the people most offended would, almost certainly, not actually read the offending material. They would just be loud because of what they assumed it says. That's unfortunately, how these things work!
 

Mercurius

Legend
If they put out a classic version, I will buy it and enjoy it. If they update it to include Tabaxi and other new races, I'll buy it and enjoy it.

Gygax didn't shy away from adding new and strange things to his setting. When he wanted an alien spaceship, he popped on in that had crashed on the Barrier Peaks. When he wanted walking vegetable men, he created vegepygmies. I've no reason to think that he wouldn't have eventually created cat men(Tabaxi) or dragon men(Dragonborn) and popped them into a spot he felt appropriate on Greyhawk, so I don't think that adding new races would be going against the grain of the setting.
Who knows what Gygax would have done. That's not really what I'm getting at, but rather embodying the "classic feel" of Greyhawk, as arising from a different context.

I mean, it isn't that different from music. If you're re-issuing Abbey Road, I think it should employ the best of modern technology, but I think it would be a shame to add in trap-house beats and modern frills, even if the Beatles--if they had made an album in 2022--might use more contemporary stuff.

But I do agree that adding new races doesn't go against the grain of the setting - as an RPG setting. But that's where I would say, re-issue it as faithfully towards original Greyhawk as possible, then have an extensive addendum (say, a separate booklet in a box set) that suggests ways to incorporate newer stuff. Best of both worlds.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
If they put out a classic version, I will buy it and enjoy it. If they update it to include Tabaxi and other new races, I'll buy it and enjoy it.

Gygax didn't shy away from adding new and strange things to his setting. When he wanted an alien spaceship, he popped on in that had crashed on the Barrier Peaks. When he wanted walking vegetable men, he created vegepygmies. I've no reason to think that he wouldn't have eventually created cat men(Tabaxi) or dragon men(Dragonborn) and popped them into a spot he felt appropriate on Greyhawk, so I don't think that adding new races would be going against the grain of the setting.

Tabaxi and Greyhawk go WAY back.
 



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