D&D 5E 5e consequence-resolution

[Oofta]

Why aren't the things I described allowed to count as "truly fail[ing]"?

Either the PCs are allowed to fail or they are not. If they are allowed to fail sometimes that simply means they don't achieve a goal and never will. That means that sometimes the last chance the PCs have is to open the safe, a task they can fail.

From what you've said you find that "boring". I find it "a logical consequence".

 

[Oofta]

It's an interesting case. I would say that failure = end of campaign is not a meaningful consequence, because - for me at least - one of the qualities of a meaningful consequence is that it goes on that matters. If the campaign ends, there is no "going on".

So I suspect in that case either the group have made a mistake, or they will have turned their thoughts to the terms of escape.

One of the reasons I don't buy published adventures is because they tend to be plot driven, linear if not exactly railroads. Certain things have to happen or not only is it the end of the campaign but potentially the entire world is pulled into the abyss and the world is destroyed. In my games, unless it's a TPK, failure just means you have to deal with the impact of the aftermath or possibly just go off to do something else knowing that you failed to stop something.

Instead I'd rather have powers (individuals, groups, otherworldly beings) that have their own goals and agendas. So in my current campaign the group had to stop Jotun* from opening a portal and wreaking havoc on their home city. Had they failed it would have been bad for the region, but it would not have been world ending. I had vague ideas of what it would mean and what impact it would have on neighboring regions and countries. Maybe they would have fallen back to helping people escape? Taken suicidal risks to close the portal cutting off the Jotun from their home realm but leaving the region under Jotun control? Who knows, campaigns often take twists and turns I don't expect.

So failure almost never means the end of a campaign for me, because my campaigns in many ways are PC oriented, what they chose to do, what they decide their goals are. I lay out plot hooks and they decide which ones to follow within the constraints of the world that I've established and their capabilities.

*Giants and fiends in my campaign

 

[Hussar]

Such as? Because the only ones I've seen give you a set DC for say a brick wall. But the DM is the one who decides it's a brick wall in the first place. It gives the illusion of objectiveness only. Is there some other system?

Good grief @Oofta. Seriously? There are thousands of systems out there. DnD is not the be all and end all of game design despite your feelings to the contrary.

Sheesh.

 

[FrogReaver]

Good grief @Oofta. Seriously? There are thousands of systems out there. DnD is not the be all and end all of game design despite your feelings to the contrary.

Sheesh.

either the dm makes up the dc for the task or the dc for the task is predetermined and the dm then is free to create the scene with an object having the dc he wants.

However some games don’t function by resolving tasks. They function by resolving conflicts. In these games the DC isn’t dm determined. The dc is typically a result of a codified mechanical process.

 

[clearstream]

either the dm makes up the dc for the task or the dc for the task is predetermined and the dm then is free to create the scene with an object having the dc he wants.

However some games don’t function by resolving tasks. They function by resolving conflicts. In these games the DC isn’t dm determined. The dc is typically a result of a codified mechanical process.

In a sense, games in the main other category - like FitD and PbtA - don't use DCs at all. Roll indexes results.

My homebrew of 5e translates DCs into a results index. It's straightforward and mathematically equivalent to DCs, but what you are doing in play is a little different. I can post the method if you are interested.

 

[Oofta]

Good grief @Oofta. Seriously? There are thousands of systems out there. DnD is not the be all and end all of game design despite your feelings to the contrary.

Sheesh.

I asked a simple question. All you had to do was give an example or two to explain what you're talking about. Guess that was just too hard.

 

[Oofta]

either the dm makes up the dc for the task or the dc for the task is predetermined and the dm then is free to create the scene with an object having the dc he wants.

However some games don’t function by resolving tasks. They function by resolving conflicts. In these games the DC isn’t dm determined. The dc is typically a result of a codified mechanical process.

Which is why I wanted to discuss the options, would there be any way to implement something different in D&D without changing the core concepts and structures of the game. Different options that have been explained always seemed to be about mechanical balance counters totally detached from logical reasons in-world.

But heaven forbid someone that hasn't played thousands of different game systems in order to understand the greatness of every other game so I can lord it over others who have not.

 

[Oofta]

In a sense, games in the main other category - like FitD and PbtA - don't use DCs at all. Roll indexes results.

My homebrew of 5e translates DCs into a results index. It's straightforward and mathematically equivalent to DCs, but what you are doing in play is a little different. I can post the method if you are interested.

What is a roll index?

 

[FrogReaver]

Which is why I wanted to discuss the options, would there be any way to implement something different in D&D without changing the core concepts and structures of the game. Different options that have been explained always seemed to be about mechanical balance counters totally detached from logical reasons in-world.

But heaven forbid someone that hasn't played thousands of different game systems in order to understand the greatness of every other game so I can lord it over others who have not.

Conflict resolution will often be more divorced from the fictional world than one is used to with task resolution.

 

[Umbran]

... so I can lord it over others who have not.

Mod Note:
It sounds like you might need a break from this discussion. Because, certainly you know that ascribing insulting motives to people is not an acceptable discussion tactic around here.

Please find a better approach.