D&D 5E Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Counterspell -- What's the Diff?

[Mort]

The DM should only say "hits your AC of 15" in a party where no one can change it. In a party with "Shield" or "Silvery Barbs" the DM should instead say "Y is attacking Player Z. They have an X on the d20. Do you have any Reaction to that attack?" It is up to the players to guess Y's bonus to hit, decide if the attack will hit Z, and chose to cast "Shield" or "Silvery Barbs" or another similar spell.
This also applies when PC's are attacking Monsters with these spells, except when the monsters are smart enough, and Vecna more than qualifies, to know anyway.

Shield allows the player to KNOW whether the attack hit or not - that's one reason it's considered so good. It's NEVER wasted on a miss (now, per RAW, you may cast it and still get hit). That's why I referenced it as an "after the fact" reaction. It's never used unless the relevant attack was already successful.

 

[James Gasik]

And even if disguising your spells can prevent his Dread Counterspell, 1) you have to know he can do that, and 2) you can't have better things to spend your Sorcery points on...

 

[Mort]

my understanding is that the adventure allows him to always know but the stat block if you move it to your own world does not

It is, unfortunately confusing!

But as outlined in this thread. My (and a quite a few others) position is, it doesn't matter that he "knows." The wording of Dread Counterspell is such that IF he can see the target AND that target is casting a spell, he can Dread Counterspell.

Vecna knowing makes the most sense, but it's not necessary per the description of Dread Counterspell (yes, this last bit is disputed).

The adventure helps but is also not 100% clear. It states that he always knows the capabilities of any spellcasters in the party and that he can identify any spell being cast without having to make a skill check.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

By the wording, it seems like he can counterspell if there's no components, but just because he can doesn't mean he'd know to, he wouldn't know to use his reaction in that moment since he can't perceive the casting until after the spell goes off, and even if he can identify a spell without an ability check, he still wouldn't be able to without seeing the components. At least how I understood it anyway.

 

[MarkB]

And even if disguising your spells can prevent his Dread Counterspell, 1) you have to know he can do that, and 2) you can't have better things to spend your Sorcery points on...

It's Vecna. You may not know he can Dread Counterspell, but you've gotta at least assume he can Counterspell.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Just thematically, I feel like the God of Secrets and general paranotic, Vecna, should be able to discern when someone is trying to obfuscate casting.

To quote the best pop cultural D&D property, you're basically asking 'hey you, can you help me kill you?'

 

[James Gasik]

Just thematically, I feel like the God of Secrets and general paranotic, Vecna, should be able to discern when someone is trying to obfuscate casting.

To quote the best pop cultural D&D property, you're basically asking 'hey you, can you help me kill you?'

Don't worry, she knows another spell for that!

 

[Mort]

By the wording, it seems like he can counterspell if there's no components, but just because he can doesn't mean he'd know to, he wouldn't know to use his reaction in that moment since he can't perceive the casting until after the spell goes off, and even if he can identify a spell without an ability check, he still wouldn't be able to without seeing the components. At least how I understood it anyway.

And who's to say he can't use his reaction to Dread Counterspell and prevent the spell AFTER the spell goes off (unlike every other spellcaster, because he's Vecna) - like other spellcasters use shield?

The ability says it works, the how isn't provided but can be easily explained however the DM likes.

 

[James Gasik]

And who's to say he can't use his reaction to Dread Counterspell and prevent the spell AFTER the spell goes off (unlike every other spellcaster, because he's Vecna) - like other spellcasters use shield?

The ability says it works, the how isn't provided but can be easily explained however the DM likes.

If I was Vecna, I'd just save DC for when some moron tries to counter one of my spells (assuming he even uses spells anymore and not "spell attacks"...).

 

[Zubatcarteira]

And who's to say he can't use his reaction to Dread Counterspell and prevent the spell AFTER the spell goes off (unlike every other spellcaster, because he's Vecna) - like other spellcasters use shield?

The ability says it works, the how isn't provided but can be easily explained however the DM likes.

Because the wording is "Vecna utters a dread word to interrupt a creature he can see that is casting a spell". That doesn't really work out if he counters after the spell goes off, unless he's breaking the laws of causality, which I guess would be cool, but I wouldn't call it the raw or how it's intended. That he needs to react and say a word means that he can't do it if he's unaware of the casting, imo.