A critique and review of the Fighter class

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, you might want to buy a different phone. Don’t know what else to tell you.

we may just leave D&D... but when we do how long before others do too? remember WotC resets editions when too many people leave.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I do get a bit tired of all this though, it's not going anywhere.

I am here to discuse my critique and the OPs critique of the fighter, you are here to say "nothing is wrong" so why are you still arguing?
I am holding out hope that you post and my counter post will one day convince you that yes there is a problem even if it isn't one that directly effect you.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There are some people who simply can't wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone has the same tastes as them.

okay I can work with this... so you admit the problem is that there is no martial class that fits the taste of a portion of the player base?

They accordingly look at D&D most popular class (measured both by D&D Beyond and WotC surveys) and declare that because it's not their flavor of fun, it must be defective. They'll deny other tastes exist, denying that the WotC surveys are valid and (as seen earlier in this thread) claiming that fighters are only popular on D&D Beyond because people are being forced to play them. If you point out to them that they're perfectly free to choose from a dozen other classes to play something more to their taste, they will complain that you're being dismissive, because if someone doesn't truly understand that tastes vary, they conclude that in a good game design every option should be tailored to their own taste.

yeah all of this seems to be a big uno reverse... because in a thread ABOUT a critique of fighters some how the idea that there even IS anything to critique is constantly called into question. Almost like those with a vested intrest in Keeping the game as is come her just to say "Nope my taste is all that matters"

 

[Oofta]

I am here to discuse my critique and the OPs critique of the fighter, you are here to say "nothing is wrong" so why are you still arguing?
I am holding out hope that you post and my counter post will one day convince you that yes there is a problem even if it isn't one that directly effect you.

If it's a problem for you, then it is a problem for you. Just because it's a problem for you does not necessarily mean it's a problem for a significant percentage of players.

But what you seem to be saying is "I can state my opinion, but you cannot yours unless you agree with me." I disagree.

 

[Oofta]

You gotta know that no one is demanding either of those things. Right?

Like I don't even disagree with this. I don't really like the fighter for design reasons that I don't pretend are anything but preference, but sure, they work fine. For some people. Maybe even for most people.

But enough people are dissatisfied with objectively getting less in two of the three pillars of the game than nearly any other class, while not actually getting more in combat than anyone else, that wotc has tried to address it with subclasses and new battlemaster maneuvers.

There just isn't a good reason to keep the fighter the way it is, when it has plenty of room for a couple simple features that aren't shared with every single other class that related primarily to the two non-combat pillars of the game. Doing so wouldn't take anything away from you or anyone else.

Define "enough people". There are, what, half a dozen posters that repeatedly talk about how bad the fighter is? People like to complain, I get it. If I want to get eyeballs, like the OP's video, one way to do it is to pick on something that's widely popular whether or not people agree with the premise.

Simple fact is we have no clue how many people dislike the fighter to the point that the class needs to be redesigned. With the purchase of DndBeyond, maybe WOTC will get better data than what we have, but I don't really expect them to share. Until then all I have to go by is that in every campaign I've run I've had at least one fighter and people seemed largely happy with them.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Disintegrate is probably equivalent in damage to a level 11+ action surge if you take into account the sort of target you would use it on and ignore its other uses.

disintegrate is 10d6+40

lets give the fighter a great sword (so 2d6+5) lets give him the action surge 6 attacks... that is 12d6+30

Actually, Blade Wind Strike is probably closer in concept and mechanics to a Tier 3 fighter's action surge, if you dropped its damage a bit.

if that is steel wind (I think that is closest I can find) it iis it deals 6d10 to 5 targets. so up to 30d10

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Like I keep saying You can be a fan of something and think it is terrible in execution.

I'm a New York Giants fan. There are millions of us. It's the third most valuable team in the Lee. The team has been trash for years. And we are vocal about it.

my grandfather was a boston red sox fan his whole life. He almost didn't ever see them win a world series... when he had CANCER, he was alive long enough to watch them... I don't know sports but the Red Sox earned a life long fan that buys there merch even though I can be told they are not 'the best' team...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If it's a problem for you, then it is a problem for you. Just because it's a problem for you does not necessarily mean it's a problem for a significant percentage of players.

But what you seem to be saying is "I can state my opinion, but you cannot yours unless you agree with me." I disagree.

what I am saying is come to talk... but if you keep saying "this is done" or "this isn't going anywhere" I don't understand what YOU are getting from this thread. I am trying to talk to people about the Critique of the fighter... if you don't think you can change anyone's mind why are you still arguing? I am because I am holding out hope that you will see that just because YOU don't have the problem doesn't mean others don't and that fixing issues OTHERS have isn't an attack on you.

 

[Oofta]

okay I can work with this... so you admit the problem is that there is no martial class that fits the taste of a portion of the player base?

yeah all of this seems to be a big uno reverse... because in a thread ABOUT a critique of fighters some how the idea that there even IS anything to critique is constantly called into question. Almost like those with a vested intrest in Keeping the game as is come her just to say "Nope my taste is all that matters"

If you want a thread "Why Fighters Suck" (or whatever you want) and don't want people to state opinions otherwise, start a "+" thread. I'll disagree, but I'll ignore it because I disagree with the premise and it was a a plus thread.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Define "enough people". There are, what, half a dozen posters that repeatedly talk about how bad the fighter is?

I don't have a count. I know 2 names that come up (although 1 I have not seen in like a week) all the time. but lets say your count is right 6 enworld posters... and as far as I know none have said they are in the same group... so that is 6 groups of 3-8 people... so 10-30 most likely people have found this issue... that we have here and now...

I also see this on facebook, tic tok, redit, and other boards (some of them may be cross over same people) and we know the vast majority of players are on NONE of these... so from our sample size a not insignificant number of people

Simple fact is we have no clue how many people dislike the fighter to the point that the class needs to be redesigned.

yeah and this is why we all can't state facts... but sure can share our experiences.