A critique and review of the Fighter class

[Neonchameleon]

Hey Hey. We should have a simple pew pew class.

We just don't need 2 KISS warrior classes.

So what you're saying is we want two classes: Kiss kiss, bang bang?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And I don't disregard your (and others) experiences. I don't question your experiences.

I do question motives because they are the underpinning of said consternation regarding the fighter. I think this is a fair question.

my motivation is to make the game better.

 

[Scott Christian]

My biggest issue with the video is the idea that a character being good at the social pillar is the same thing as roleplaying.
There's plenty of roleplay potential of a fighter because it is a lot more open than most the other classes.

I've never really seen an issue with the fighter in the social pillar, personally.
There are plenty of ways to build a socially adept fighter, by using backgrounds, feats, subclasses or multiclassing.
It seems a bit rough to say, if you exclude all these options you have for making a social fighter than there's no way to make a social fighter.

Also, being bad at the social pillar usually just leads to more fights, so a socially inept fighter is in itself a win win.

I agree.

This kind of points to how different tables can be. Some tables don't care how well a person holds to their ideals, flaws, etc. Some DMs never take it into account. The potion maker is not a person, they are a manipulated instrument that only a +7 can crack. Other tables might have a backstory on the apothecary; how he learned his craft while serving in the war, and has a soft spot for those on the front line. But that boils down to the DM prepping.

 

[Scott Christian]

my motivation is to make the game better.

Excellent. Maybe you can try alternate paths. Here is one for a player and DM:

• Player: Try using your backstory to do something clever in a fight. Maybe something that gives your ally an advantage. After all, since all these other classes do more damage, maybe you can help them do that damage.
• DM: Try to highlight your fighter in a situation that requires an attribute skill he's good at. Bar Olympics, climbing contests, etc. If they win, give them advantage on all persuasion rolls to the people who watched them run through the Ninja Warrior course. Have the crowd idolize them.

Or... Just tell the DM you want to roll a d20 for damage to even things out.

 

[Unwise]

It always annoys me that people that claim to be into D&D for the RP element think they can't RP if they have low charisma. That is just another type of power gaming. Having -1 or even -2 charisma makes for some of the most fun RP around.

You are bad at most social interaction, why is that stopping you from doing it? If you are playing a broody loner, that is your fault for being boring, don't blame the class or stats.

Zapp Brannigan, Sheldon Cooper, Martin from the Simpsons, and all sorts of other characters never come across the way they intend to. They can be fun though.

 

[James Gasik]

It always annoys me that people that claim to be into D&D for the RP element think they can't RP if they have low charisma. That is just another type of power gaming. Having -1 or even -2 charisma makes for some of the most fun RP around.

You are bad at most social interaction, why is that stopping you from doing it? If you are playing a broody loner, that is your fault for being boring, don't blame the class or stats.

Zapp Brannigan, Sheldon Cooper, Martin from the Simpsons, and all sorts of other characters never come across the way they intend to. They can be fun though.

I've seen DM's ask for Charisma checks for just about any interaction with NPC's, even "see if NPC is impressed by you". Once, this was even a group Charisma check because everyone was talking in a scene.

In a case like that, I can see the "low Charisma, no roleplaying" thing happening.

However, I will admit that in many cases, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy; a player who doesn't really want to rp will give themselves low Charisma.

 

[Minigiant]

It always annoys me that people that claim to be into D&D for the RP element think they can't RP if they have low charisma. That is just another type of power gaming. Having -1 or even -2 charisma makes for some of the most fun RP around.

You are bad at most social interaction, why is that stopping you from doing it? If you are playing a broody loner, that is your fault for being boring, don't blame the class or stats.

Zapp Brannigan, Sheldon Cooper, Martin from the Simpsons, and all sorts of other characters never come across the way they intend to. They can be fun though.

Excellent. Maybe you can try alternate paths. Here is one for a player and DM:

• Player: Try using your backstory to do something clever in a fight. Maybe something that gives your ally an advantage. After all, since all these other classes do more damage, maybe you can help them do that damage.
• DM: Try to highlight your fighter in a situation that requires an attribute skill he's good at. Bar Olympics, climbing contests, etc. If they win, give them advantage on all persuasion rolls to the people who watched them run through the Ninja Warrior course. Have the crowd idolize them.

Or... Just tell the DM you want to roll a d20 for damage to even things out.

The thing is this is a RPG not FFRP. At some point someone is going to have to roll in order for the situation to change course.

You can use you traits, boons, flaws, connections, and history to ease the sitation to to a favorable one.

But the situation doesn't change course without a roll of a die either by the DM or a player.

And the fighter has the 2nd worst rolls outside of combat.

 

[Oofta]

The thing is this is a RPG not FFRP. At some point someone is going to have to roll in order for the situation to change course.

You can use you traits, boons, flaws, connections, and history to ease the sitation to to a favorable one.

But the situation doesn't change course without a roll of a die either by the DM or a player.

And the fighter has the 2nd worst rolls outside of combat.

Umm, not true according to The Role of the Dice chapter in the DMG. Whether or not dice are used and how is up to the group and DM.

Sometimes I'll call for a roll, sometimes I won't. Depends on what's gone before, what the PCs did or did not do and what the PC said. Heck, sometimes I just have a roll even if the PC made a persuasive argument but I want to see how happy the target is about agreeing.

That and, of course, nothing stops a fighter from investing in charisma if they want. On the other hand, some people like playing PCs with weaknesses.

 

[bedir than]

Y'all know that roleplaying isn't a pillar of play, right?
Roleplaying is expected in every pillar of play. It doesn't make up for the Fighter not having any unique abilities within either the social or exploration pillars.

Everyone gets at least two skills from their class. Everyone gets a background.
Everyone except the Fighter get more on top of that.

Of course we can roleplay a comparatively incompetent "hero." But why is the Fighter innately non-heroic when it comes to social and exploration?

 

[tetrasodium]

Y'all know that roleplaying isn't a pillar of play, right?
Roleplaying is expected in every pillar of play. It doesn't make up for the Fighter not having any unique abilities within either the social or exploration pillars.

Everyone gets at least two skills from their class. Everyone gets a background.
Everyone except the Fighter get more on top of that.

Of course we can roleplay a comparatively incompetent "hero." But why is the Fighter innately non-heroic when it comes to social and exploration?

Spoiler: You could use this to fill that hole in your fighter's soul

It would even put you on par with other classes that need to make hard choices with their ASI selections & not fill out 20+relevant combat feats till 8 or 12+