A critique and review of the Fighter class

[Vaalingrade]

A friendly reminder to everyone that simply shouting 'strawman' at one another is not an argument.

 

[Bill Zebub]

A friendly reminder to everyone that simply shouting 'strawman' at one another is not an argument.

Yeah. I greatly prefer ad hominem attacks.

 

[Scott Christian]

This is highly dependent though, right?

I mean, the bard (for trope sake) has the adoration of those physically attracted to them and children. But maybe, the mayor, an old fighter himself, appreciates the fighter much more. There is a context here, a mental tally the DM must do, in order to shape the world. I have found for me, as DM, to not have too many notable NPCs. This makes those encounters truer and more varied. So a group of kids likes the bard and he sleeps around - that is literally three or four sentences of narration. A deep talk from an NPC is much more.

I just read this. For clarification sake, I was referring to the bard trope of sleeping around (with adults), and kids following them around in the streets. Sorry, just didn't want anyone to misconstrue this.

 

[Mannahnin]

This is highly dependent though, right?

I mean, the bard (for trope sake) has the adoration of those physically attracted to them and children. But maybe, the mayor, an old fighter himself, appreciates the fighter much more. There is a context here, a mental tally the DM must do, in order to shape the world. I have found for me, as DM, to not have too many notable NPCs. This makes those encounters truer and more varied. So a group of kids likes the bard and he sleeps around - that is literally three or four sentences of narration. A deep talk from an NPC is much more.

Surely this is an example of the DM compensating for the Fighter's mechanical deficiency?

 

[Minigiant]

That said, it is an imaginary wall built by the same player. We all build them, for all sorts of reasons. But it is imaginary, because in no way shape or form, does that +1 change the outcome of 99% of group fights, nor does it suddenly make the fighter exploring with a group any less valid. The latter is especially true, since the exploration pillar is more about listening, problem solving, and imagination than rolling a die.

Many argue but the +1 to damage for fighters is huge do the sheer number of attacks a fighters makes yo add to it.

 

[Oofta]

This is highly dependent though, right?

I mean, the bard (for trope sake) has the adoration of those physically attracted to them and children. But maybe, the mayor, an old fighter himself, appreciates the fighter much more. There is a context here, a mental tally the DM must do, in order to shape the world. I have found for me, as DM, to not have too many notable NPCs. This makes those encounters truer and more varied. So a group of kids likes the bard and he sleeps around - that is literally three or four sentences of narration. A deep talk from an NPC is much more.

Also assumes that there's a bard or sorcerer in every group. Just like it's always assumed there's a rogue and wizard.

At the table, the fighter doesn't have to compete against every possible build and class, they just have to fill a role that the party is weak on. If they care, of course because D&D is not a competition.

 

[Oofta]

Many argue but the +1 to damage for fighters is huge do the sheer number of attacks a fighters makes yo add to it.

I would say it's less critical. They have a 5% decrease in chance to hit, but their overall damage is spread across multiple attacks. Measured as impact on DPR (which has an overrated focus as measure of overall effectiveness IMHO), the reduction will affect fighters less than most classes.

 

[Mort]

I would say it's less critical. They have a 5% decrease in chance to hit, but their overall damage is spread across multiple attacks. Measured as impact on DPR (which has an overrated focus as measure of overall effectiveness IMHO), the reduction will affect fighters less than most classes.

Only at high (11+) levels.

Otherwise, fighters don't get near as much to add as other classes (paladins get smite and some other spells, rangers get hunters mark and some other spells, barbarians get rage etc.) so they feel that +1 more (and remember it's 1 less to hit AND damage so it's not just 5%).

Now the BM fighter gets maneuver dice that can both mitigate the to hit and significantly add to damage - so that's good. But, they only get 4 initially and if they want to use any in another pillar - they have to manage that resource very stringently. And, again, they then have to directly sacrifice combat prowess for help with another pillar.

 

[Neonchameleon]

This is highly dependent though, right?

I mean, the bard (for trope sake) has the adoration of those physically attracted to them and children. But maybe, the mayor, an old fighter himself, appreciates the fighter much more. There is a context here, a mental tally the DM must do, in order to shape the world. I have found for me, as DM, to not have too many notable NPCs. This makes those encounters truer and more varied. So a group of kids likes the bard and he sleeps around - that is literally three or four sentences of narration. A deep talk from an NPC is much more.

So once again the fighter is getting a house ruled class feature and a universe that deliberately be is warped round him.

I mean the bard is using their charisma and their actions to take and promote random NPCs scattered around the world. Meanwhile you are literally custom-crafting NPCs and by doing so twisting your setting in order to keep the fighter socially relevant.

If the mayor is an elected mayor they almost certainly have more in common with the bard than the fighter. Skill on the battlefield is not how you become mayor - and seeking popularity and performing may be. Meanwhile the role of mayor is basically a glorified administrator. There is absolutely nothing inherent in the role of mayor that says they should prefer fighters to any other class. The only reason this one does is because you have invented him specifically to have talks with the fighter.

Yes as the DM you can by fiat and by putting a thumb on the scales make anyone relevant. But please don't pretend that this is anything other than you playing favourites.

And there is no mental tally the DM must (or IMO even should) do. The main reason you feel the need to do one is that you know the fighter falls short.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

It's worth noting that most classes got straight up boosts in Tasha's. Wizards can swap their cantrips on a daily basis. Clerics and paladins can channel to recover spells. Druids can summon familiars. Versatility is power.

Fighters got the ability to retrain every 4 levels...

Would it really have been so much if fighters could change their style on a short/long rest?