DTRPG Says 'Don't criticize us or we'll ban you'

[GreyLord]

I am going to agree with those saying that DTRPG technically have a monopoly over PDF RPG sales over the internet that you can keep on your account and download over and over again.

HOWEVER, I ALSO THINK that they should be allowed to use whatever policies they want as long as it is non-discriminatory over the general typical lines of thought (so, equality along gender, racial, ethnic, sexual, religious, age, disability, etc).

They are not a government. They are not a public utility. They are a business and what is on their property is ON PRIVATE PROPERTY that the business owns. They ALSO have RIGHTS and can exercise them. They do not have to put up with things on their OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY that they do not want to put up with.

It is the same thing I saw over the pandemic where people feel that they can simply disregard a store's policies towards masks and social distancing. They never stopped to consider that the store itself was private property. Sure, it may be a public business, but it still the private property of the business itself. It is NOT your Government property or anything else in that line. Screaming at employees, abusing the others there, and other aggressive actions against them is not necessarily a right you are granted.

In addition, if you declare you hate their products or their store, level lawsuits, etc and they don't like you, as it IS their private property, I do not see why they should not be allowed to ban you from their property.

I think this is more a property rights issue than anything else. As long as it is their private property, I feel they should be allowed to do what they want (within reason of course, following the laws of whichever land or nation they are in) with their own private property under the hold of the business that possesses it.

I love that there are sites which allow us the freedom to discuss things (once again, normally within reason, but they allow a LOT of freedom in their with their discussions, such as ENWorld), but that doesn't mean we can just go willy nilly and do what we want with others property.

 

[Alzrius]

Eh. You’re not talking from a position of data. If you want to maintain that DTRPG has monopoly power over the market, you do that. But I’ll reiterate one last time, from the position of a publisher who actually sells into the market, that it doesn’t have, for the benefit of those reading.

On the contrary, I do have data: yours. It's just that we're defining the market in question differently, with you saying (if I'm understanding you correctly) that it involves all profits based on digital tabletop RPG products sales, whereas I'm talking about venues that stock (and immediately fulfill) pay-for-download products in perpetuity, as opposed to limited-time preorders that Kickstarter doesn't themselves fulfill.

In other words, we're not so much disagreeing as talking past each other.

 

[Morrus]

whereas I'm talking about venues that stock (and immediately) pay-for-download products in perpetuity, as opposed to limited-time preorders that Kickstarter doesn't personally fulfill.

That’s a meaningless subset of the market. Who cares? You could equally say “I’m just talking about companies with blue logos”.

Sure, I agree that you can define a subset of the market which proves your point, as can anybody. But your point just isn’t relevant or interesting to people actually in business in that market.

In other words, we're not so much disagreeing as talking past each other.

No, we’re disagreeing. You’re wrong. You are not familiar with the TTRPG market, and you’re digging in despite that.

 

[Alzrius]

That’s a meaningless subset of the market. Who cares? You could equally say “I’m just talking about companies with blue logos”.

Sure, I agree that you can define a subset of the market which proves your point, as can anybody. But your point just isn’t relevant or interesting to people actually in business in that market.

I personally disagree that it's meaningless; it's certainly a niche market, but I'm guessing that for publishers who, say, have a not-inconsiderable catalogue of products but haven't run a Kickstarter for any of them (which, if you look at how many publishers are on DTRPG, is more than a few) it's not an unimportant distinction.

On a semi-related note, I wanted to ask you something: I'm not sure if this applies to any of the Kickstarters that you've run, but for KS projects where digital fulfillment is handled by DTRPG, do they (that is, DTRPG) make any sort of profit from that?

 

[Morrus]

I personally disagree that it's meaningless; it's certainly a niche market, but I'm guessing that for publishers who, say, have a not-inconsiderable catalogue of products but haven't run a Kickstarter for any of them (which, if you look at how many publishers are on DTRPG, is more than a few) it's not an unimportant distinction.

 

[Baron Opal II]

No, it doesn't.

Again, you don't need to be a monopoly to have monopoly power. If we go by the idea that "anyone who starts a storefront can compete," then there are no monopolies at all, ever, because anyone can potentially go into business against a much larger company. That's a nice theory, but it's not very useful in terms of reality.

There are several other outlets for said product, which I listed above. It takes marketing effort, but you are not entitled to force another company to carry your product. DTRPG is not a monopoly, there are many other avenues to market a product. DTRPG is not obligated in any way to take every product someone wants to sell. You're saying it is "close" or "just like" a monopoly is easily refuted.

 

[Alzrius]

There are several other outlets for said product, which I listed above. It takes marketing effort, but you are not entitled to force another company to carry your product. DTRPG is not a monopoly, there are many other avenues to market a product. DTRPG is not obligated in any way to take every product someone wants to sell. You're saying it is "close" or "just like" a monopoly is easily refuted.

Those outlets don't reach the majority of the customer base, and I find myself doubtful that advertising can make up for missing out on such a large swathe of the potential market.

That said, there's an important distinction to be made here: it's not that anyone is forcing anyone else to do anything (I'm not sure how that would even work). Rather, it's that once monopoly power is acquired, the way DTRPG has acquired it (even if they're not a monopoly), they then have an ethical obligation to serve interests beyond their own, even if that's unenforceable.

 

[Mannahnin]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the process for selling a self-published RPG book on Amazon?

 

[Umbran]

In terms of raw dollar value, I have no doubt. But I meant only with regard to other digital storefronts;

But Morrus' point still stands - if that digital storefront model isn't how RPG revenue is realized these days then DriveThruRPG doesn't have significant power over creators or the market.

Being the tallest halfling doesn't make you a giant, in other words.

 

[Morrus]

once monopoly power is acquired, the way DTRPG has acquired it .

Just for those reading, I’ll quickly reiterate again that this statement is untrue, no matter how many times it is repeated in the face of contradictory information, and that as a premise, conclusions based on it are invalid.