A critique and review of the Fighter class

[Minigiant]

we never really saw paladins, but thieves didn't have the same level of distrust as casters did...

And if that's not class favouritism at work (that explicit thieves aren't as distrusted as casters) I don't know what is.

Exactly.

In the olden days of long long ago, NPCs wouldapproach PCS in the order Fighters, Priests, Thieves then Magic Users.

Fighters were like Humans. They got a secret class feature of "Not being automatically distrusted."

Priests got it too If you were of the right god(dess). So unless you walked around with iconography, you got the

All the fighter had to go is not walk around covered in blood.

Class and race favoritism was all in Classic D&D.

 

[Garthanos]

Said it before.

A heirlom fated item that can't be stolen would be great for a Fighter subclass.

Like a hexblade but not dark. Like If you kill enough dudes, a magic item seeks you out to attune with you.

It has the negative of depriving Battlemasters and others of getting the benefit and leaves the fighter who takes it even less distinguished in a sense than the Champion. (unless that item is really badass but we are kind of discussing that be the case arent we.... hmmm write it up?)

since str is (RAW) the only stat you can get above 19 with those items

I was not necessarily going to strictly limit it to what could explicitly be achieved the Daughter of Athena getting a Cha (or Int) and Strength buff sounds appropriate

it almost looks to favor melee combat str classes... until you realize by it resetting not giving a set boost you end up with an 8 or 10 str character getting the same 19 str as the warrior with putting 15 in and out 2pt ASI in it for 17 still have a 19 str... or 21, 23, 27ect.

I was suggesting those gave some broad measurement of how potent a single item can be AND as a way to boost fighters around higher tiers...

I was not necessarily planning on them being explicitly the same as the item.
Blood of Zeus cannot be handed to an ally for instance

Mercuries bloodline may give Some Dex boost and more movement boons

So by putting str upping items in your game you give the non str characters the boost to the few skills and saves.

Yes that can be an impact of the normal items... I was not necessarily going to have that. AND this is in context of creating an Epic Destiny for the Fighter specifically. If that means the fighter gets more other stats and skills and saves, ummm somehow I am not calling that a loss.

The availability of any such remains to be seen outside of that context it is DM fiat after all this is 5e and its run by a little red car.

 

[James Gasik]

we never really saw paladins, but thieves didn't have the same level of distrust as casters did...

Mostly because nobody wears a badge on their chest that says "THIEF". My last Thief was a Dwarven Locksmith, a licensed member of their guild. I didn't have my Wizards wear robes either, preferring to dress like, well, a well-dressed person. Granted, once people see you use a spell, that's that, but in most of the games I've played in, Wizard NPC's tend to be important personages, so it's really only out in the boonies that I'd expect a lot of Wizard prejudice.

And depending on their religion, I'd expect a Cleric to be the kind of person most NPC's would respect, being a man of not only Faith, but also able to heal the sick and feed the poor with the miracles allotted to them. YMMV, obviously.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It has the negative of depriving Battlemasters and others of getting the benefit and leaves the fighter who takes it even less distinguished in a sense than the Champion. (unless that item is really badass but we are kind of discussing that be the case arent we.... hmmm write it up?)

Why? In essence the heirloom fighter here would be the warlock multiclass subclass, getting invocations. This doesn't mean you can't have 4e style artifacts that care about how long they get on with their wielder.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Mostly because nobody wears a badge on their chest that says "THIEF".

now I know we didn't play in the same circles... the number of loner orphans all black with a heavy cloak and 10 hidden knives out numbered every other rogue/thief 5 to 1

in most of the games I've played in, Wizard NPC's tend to be important personages, so it's really only out in the boonies that I'd expect a lot of Wizard prejudice.

it depends how high fantasy it was... in high fantasy games we ended up with mageocracies and mage advisors... but in lower fantasy more sword and sorcerer we had distrust of caster

And depending on their religion, I'd expect a Cleric to be the kind of person most NPC's would respect, being a man of not only Faith, but also able to heal the sick and feed the poor with the miracles allotted to them. YMMV, obviously.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Those official epic boons are about an ASI level of potency is far far less than many a legendary magic item. A girdle of Giant strength might be 5 ASI's for instance.

So, design bigger ones. The design space doesn’t require feat-sized units.

 

[Weiley31]

I feel like some of the issues with the 5E Fighter are already being addressed with the enhanced Backgrounds coming in Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen this November alongside with the Free feats things. The Squire/Knight feats allow your Fighter character to become more melee focused a bit more, with the Battle Master going hog wild on that aspect. When it comes to the Bonus feats, that you choose, a DM could customize the list that a PC can pick from based upon the background chosen. So, the Skilled Feat could be a potential choice that one would pick if they wanted to make sure their fighter got a bit more skills in their kit. A Fighter with the Entertainer background could have the Actor feat as a possible choice selection, so on and so on. (Of course, that would be both the DM and the player would probably have to work out some ideas on what possible feat list selections would be for such a thing.)

Perhaps not the be all, end all hot fix, but some of the issues present can be fixed/patched by work arounds such as that. As for other things, like the Indomitable feature working the way it does, instead of being a Legendary Save type fix, well yeah, I can see that. And then we don't even know how most Classes are gonna be changed/modified when 2024 comes around. Perhaps Indomitable will get fixed by then
And yes I'm fully aware that the Knight of Solamnia background is unique to Dragonlance, but nothing is stopping ya from refluffing the background to something more appropriate to your campaign, unless your AL or your DM is fussy like that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And yes I'm fully aware that the Knight of Solamnia background is unique to Dragonlance, but nothing is stopping ya from refluffing the background to something more appropriate to your campaign, unless your AL or your DM is fussy like that.

we are already talking about how to use those

 

[Garthanos]

So, design bigger ones. The design space doesn’t require feat-sized units.

We call it its own thing so it is not seen as interchangeable with the ASI ones.

 

[Garthanos]

Mostly because nobody wears a badge on their chest that says "THIEF".

That was my players reaction not wanting the label even the invisible hovering one, nor the inferior mechanics, in AD&D land, but my wife and daughter on the contrary NOW love rogues.