D&D (2024) The Half Orc. Are they still needed?

[jmartkdr2]

Premise: Given the "softening" of Orcs in the mainline documents and likely continued efforts to remove the idea that any given race of playable peoples in DnD are inherently evil, does it make sense to have Half Orcs as a playable option in the next iteration of the PHB? Should instead players just get rules for playing Orcs outright in the PHB?

Thoughts?

I would prefer orcs in the PHB at this point, with no half-orcs as a distinct mechanical option. Add a sidebar that say half-orcs exist, but you can use orc rules, human rules, or custom linage rules, depending on how you imaging the character.

No slippery slope here: we don't need to include all monstrous races. Orcs and kolbolds or goblins is enough to get the idea across. You could stick pc rules for other monstrous races in the Monster Manual.

 

[Charlaquin]

2) Why are elves/humans and orcs/humans the only two that get defined by their mixed lineage (and thus their own entries in the Player's Handbook?) Where is the dwarf/human entry? Where is the elf/gnome entry? The halfling/goblin entry? The human/halfling entry? If we are assuming that most of these humanoid races can interbreed... they there is no reason to single out the elf/human and orc/human as the only two that get their own entries for lineage selection.

Well, prior to 4e, elves, half-elves, humans, and half-orcs were the only PHB races of human height. 3.Xe categorized dwarves as Medium sized, but in earlier editions they were still small enough to have restrictions on what weapons they’re allowed to use. And orcs weren’t historically playable, but of the humanoid monsters orcs are probably the most humanlike in stature.

Gary apparently wasn’t into Size Difference stuff, is what I’m getting at.

 

[jmartkdr2]

The half-orc used to represent the archetypical outsider who may be treated poorly by others for their lineage. This is something that many of WotC's target audience finds offensive. And as others have pointed out, a lot of people are used to orcs being good guys at least part of the time. So WotC might as well ditch the half-orc and just make orcs a playable race.

Eh, tieflings are pretty dang popular. They code to somewhat different racism, but that's a minor detail if you're just playing a fantasy adventure game.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I'd rather see the Horc become something on its own with the orc taking one of the big guy slots.

The Horc should definitely have a breath weapon of some sort.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

My friends that are clearly both part of, and ignored by, both 'races' of their parents absolutely love the half-orc. It helps them feel like themselves, with a foot in both worlds. Telling such a person that they're really just an orc doesn't enable their story - it ends it.

Exactly this.

Yes, the game still “needs” half-orcs.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is it? You're right, the description is right there in the PHB's description. But I don't think I've seen tieflings treated as outsiders in a long, long time. What does it really mean to be an outsider when your adventuring party is made up of a kenku, a fire genasi, a halfing, a goliath, and a bugbear? But really, this applied to the half-orc as well. It's been a long, long time since I've seen them treated as outsiders in any game I've played in.

It depends on the situation. When I had a new player character bugbear join the party in Rime of the Frostmaiden they were initially being treated with hostility by the Ten Towners. But once they joined the party they were accepted, because people treat adventuring parties differently.

 

[MGibster]

Eh, tieflings are pretty dang popular. They code to somewhat different racism, but that's a minor detail if you're just playing a fantasy adventure game.

Tieflings are pretty darn cool and I've liked them since 2nd edition. But you bring up a good point, I'm playing a fantasy adventure game. For me at least, D&D is not a game where I engage in deep thought. Like Minsc, we're butt kicking for goodness.

 

[Scribe]

I fully agree, except that you seem (unless I’m misreading you) to be expressing this with resignation or disgust...

Correct. I do not like the direction of 5e, in pretty much any way.

Disgust is too strong a word though. Resignation, apathy, boredom, those would be accurate.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Today the stereotype of orcs are "bad guys, a bag of muscles without too much brain".

I would rather aasimars than tienflings, because the last is the bad guy being the popular star in the high-school, and the aasimar like the brighter student being totally ingored, and suffering bulling and the syndrome of the tall poppies, and a bad repuration by fault of false rumour created by enviers.

* Have you imagined any time a orc bard/skald singing a bardcore version of "I like to move it"?

 

[Reynard]

The outsider angle is an interesting one. "Ownership" over the outsider characters has kind of drifted from the nerdy white kids of yore to the queer folk and PoC players of today. Note: I am not saying that there are now no nerdy white kids that feel like outsiders, nor am I saying that all queer folk and PoC feel like outsiders. But as fantasies, RPGs allow us to be the better, more awesome, more well liked and appreciated versions of ourselves. Outsider character archetypes, from Drizzt onward, that end up being beloved heroes or infamous scoundrels are definitely a thing. As the tent expands, there's more "competition" for that role. Maybe that's one of the reasons we see the proliferation of outsider character archetypes, to make sure everyone has a chance to claim their own corner of that fantasy. It's especially interesting because there are dual -- sometimes duelling -- purposes in fantasy representation: the desire to make sure everyone can see themselves in the fantasy, regardless of who they are, and the desire to make sure that those don't becomes limits and people can be whatever they want within the fantasy.
I bet there is some really interesting writing being done on the subject of the intersection of identity, fantasy and D&D, particularly for millenials and GenZ. I will have to do some digging.