D&D 5E Toxicity in the Fandom

[Vaalingrade]

But these things are not the same, they are just similar. Would you have told someone who disliked 4E D&D to just go play Pathfinder instead?

That is exactly what Paizo did.

 

[Faolyn]

Some words very offensive in USA aren't a big deal in Australia and NZ.

Some have positive connotations depending on how they're used.

Australians also swear a bit so do we relative to USA. Every swear word here is about as offensive as the word damn in USA with the exception of an F bomb which still counts as swearing but isn't that offensive any more.

C words still bad but Australia and NZ have a few sayings using it that has positive connotations.

Australians can also turn the word mate into an insult and a punch out.

Yeah, that was the point. This Australian guy used the word to in an American setting and was shocked at response, because he didn't know it was that bad in the States.

And to bring it back to the original point, A mod might think a poster isn't be rude, or at least not that rude, without realizing that what they're saying is actually quite bigoted to other people--especially if that mod isn't in the same group as the "other people"--and thus might think that the other people are overreacting or bullying the initial poster.

 

[BB Shockwave]

I've seen a lot of comments lately that if you are a real fan you should just be happy they made something for you, like you were a kid sitting at a table waiting for mom's dinner and need to show more gratitude.

LOL! I have actually seen that thrown into the face of the whole hungarian transformers fandom almost 2 decades ago, and the irony is, it was done by a Star Wars über-fan.
Basically he joined our forums and then started rather shamelessly marketing stuff for sale. He would buy some new toy from Japan or the USA, showcase the photos, sing praises of how much he likes that toy... then sell it a month later saying "ah it was enough to have it for that long".
That was not the issue though, but his attitude. When he was showcasing his latest Revoltech figure, he got it from me and most others that we are just not interested in buying Transformers that cannot transform.
That prompted a whole tirade out of him, which basically boiled down to "You are not REAL FANS then, because real fans buy ANYTHING the company makes in that franchise that has that logo on it." He was astounded when people told him that many G1 fans are not fans of Beast Wars and vice versa, and won't collect those toys. He then threw a hissy fit saying we are unprofessional fans (LOL) and quit.
I remember it to this day, because same as you, I keep seeing this "you must like and buy everything the company makes, or you are not a REAL FAN!" argument even today.

That is exactly what Paizo did.

But it's still not the same as D&D. There are no Mind Flayers in Pathfinder, Drows do not worship Lolth, Elminster or Mordenkainen do not exist, most of the pantheon of gods save for the ones derived from real mythology are different, etc.
And that's just without mentioning the myriad new classes Paizo created over the years.
I enjoy Pathfinder's lore and their adventures, but they are NOT D&D. They started out as a copycat and evolved into doing their own thing, which I respect, but they are not a replacement for me for D&D. Same as how Starfinder is not Spelljammer.
So for me, it is good that I actually like 5E, because otherwise, I would not have anything to turn to.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I enjoy Pathfinder's lore and their adventures, but they are NOT D&D. They started out as a copycat and evolved into doing their own thing, which I respect, but they are not a replacement for me for D&D. Same as how Starfinder is not Spelljammer.

To the extent Pathfinder is not D&D, various editions of D&D are not D&D to some people. So at some point you either need to decide you're going to settle with an edition you like and stop, get over it, or move on to something else. Getting het up about change is about as counterproductive as you can get with RPGs; its going to continue happening, and other than venting there's a limited amount you're going to do about it. Same applies to various other media and products.

 

[Vaalingrade]

But it's still not the same as D&D. There are no Mind Flayers in Pathfinder, Drows do not worship Lolth, Elminster or Mordenkainen do not exist, most of the pantheon of gods save for the ones derived from real mythology are different, etc.

So... a thousand percent better from my perspective?

Also, there's plenty of D&D Settings don't have Elminster of Mordenkainen of Lloth.

All of them except Planescape and Greyhawk had different pantheons too.

And that's just without mentioning the myriad new classes Paizo created over the years.

~Looks at the Complete series from 3x~ Okay...

 

[Irlo]

I remember it to this day, because same as you, I keep seeing this "you must like and buy everything the company makes, or you are not a REAL FAN!" argument even today.

I think reasonable people agree that these "real fan" arguments are preposterous. But didn't you earlier today dismiss and insult certain toy collectors as "fake nerds" because they're collecting toys for reasons you don't approve of, while boasting of your own nerd credentials? I still have my BG2 t-shirt, by the way, although it's getting ragged. I approve of your wardrobe.

Were you being ironic and I missed the nuance?

 

[CleverNickName]

But these things are not the same, they are just similar. Would you have told someone who disliked 4E D&D to just go play Pathfinder instead? Maybe in the early years, Pathfinder was just 3.5E in a different universe, but since then even before PF 2.0 came out, it has become incredibly different with character classes and races and rules that D&D never had. And that's not mentioning all the races and characters and locations Paizo cannot use because WotC owns them. You could play it that way, but you would always feel that you are just playing a knockoff of the product you really wanted from the original creators in the first place.

That is exactly what Paizo did.

Yep and if I recall correctly, Paizo quickly outsold D&D and became the top-selling TTRPG. Folks forget that for a short while there, Paizo held the top spot of the TTRPG market until WotC released D&D 5th Edition.

All this to say: customers sometimes have more power than they realize.

 

[Older Beholder]

Pretty sad if that's the only reason people know D&D from. About as sad as all the fake nerds who started collecting Funko Pop after watching Big Bang Theory because they thought that's what nerds do.

Another fine example of exactly the sort of thing the thread is talking about.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yep and if I recall correctly, Paizo quickly outsold D&D and became the top-selling TTRPG. Folks forget that for a short while there, Paizo held the top spot of the TTRPG market until WotC released D&D 5th Edition.

All this to say: customers sometimes have more power than they realize.

Well, if there's anywhere for them to go. Under normal circumstances its not easy for anyone else to get as close to a clone of a just terminated edition as it was for PF1e to be, effectively, D&D 3.75, while being well enough known by the upset fanbase for it to matter. Its not a normal situation.

 

[James Gasik]

LOL! I have actually seen that thrown into the face of the whole hungarian transformers fandom almost 2 decades ago, and the irony is, it was done by a Star Wars über-fan.
Basically he joined our forums and then started rather shamelessly marketing stuff for sale. He would buy some new toy from Japan or the USA, showcase the photos, sing praises of how much he likes that toy... then sell it a month later saying "ah it was enough to have it for that long".
That was not the issue though, but his attitude. When he was showcasing his latest Revoltech figure, he got it from me and most others that we are just not interested in buying Transformers that cannot transform.
That prompted a whole tirade out of him, which basically boiled down to "You are not REAL FANS then, because real fans buy ANYTHING the company makes in that franchise that has that logo on it." He was astounded when people told him that many G1 fans are not fans of Beast Wars and vice versa, and won't collect those toys. He then threw a hissy fit saying we are unprofessional fans (LOL) and quit.
I remember it to this day, because same as you, I keep seeing this "you must like and buy everything the company makes, or you are not a REAL FAN!" argument even today.


But it's still not the same as D&D. There are no Mind Flayers in Pathfinder, Drows do not worship Lolth, Elminster or Mordenkainen do not exist, most of the pantheon of gods save for the ones derived from real mythology are different, etc.
And that's just without mentioning the myriad new classes Paizo created over the years.
I enjoy Pathfinder's lore and their adventures, but they are NOT D&D. They started out as a copycat and evolved into doing their own thing, which I respect, but they are not a replacement for me for D&D. Same as how Starfinder is not Spelljammer.
So for me, it is good that I actually like 5E, because otherwise, I would not have anything to turn to.

I mean there could be, nothing stops someone from running a Pathfinder game with D&D lore. I know that's what my group often did, because we weren't really into Golarion.