Could still say they're willing to take several turns to do a thorough job instead of just one?
D&D General "I make a perception check."
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
Celebrim
Legend
I think the bigger problem with "I make a perception roll" is brought out to good effect by OotS:
Perception generally isn't a skill the player should ever roll. It's 99% of the time a passive skill. It's only not a passive skill when the player does something active that might improve their perception above the passive level, thus earning a new skill check. And that in my experience is really rare. Maybe it happens when the character gets out a telescope and takes a few minutes to survey the area carefully, but generally speaking "I want to see/hear more" isn't even a valid proposition. The correct response is just, "You have been trying to see and hear as much as you can."
But an even bigger problem here is that players shouldn't ever get in the habit of, "I perform X skill". Usually the players should be saying, "I do this." and the GM as part of adjudicating whatever it is tells them, "Ok, make a X skill check."
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
222 posts in 6 hours? That's one new post every 1 minute 37 seconds, for an entire morning.
Agree completely. Perception isn't really an action that you even need to call, at least at my table...it's "always on." I assume the characters are always trying to look and listen, and always to the best of their ability, unless I'm told otherwise ("I avert my eyes," for example, or "I cover my ears.") If my players ask to make a Perception check, I usually respond with "You already did."
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Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Let me try getting away from the perception example because I think the complexity of the situation may be obfuscating the point. Let’s imagine we’ve house ruled the use rope skill into 5e. And let’s say you want your character to tie their shoes. I don’t imagine you would say “can I make a use rope check?” Both because that wouldn’t actually convey to the DM that you want to tie your shoes, and because even if you have a really high bonus to your use rope skill, you might fail, and why would you want to fail to tie your shoes? What you would say is “I tie my shoes,” and you would hope the DM wouldn’t say “ok, make a use rope check.”
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Celebrim
Legend
This topic always always becomes heated. This is about the fifth time I've seen it come up and blow up like this.
As an aside, Sage Advice says that an "Active Search" using perception can never miss something that the "Passive Perception" value would have found. So apparently in at least some common cases the perception roll is effectively bounded below by the passive perception - and that one might ask for a roll when trying to take time and do better. (Around 23:20 in the link below).
It's followed by Invisibility and Hiding and why you might want to do both.
dnd.wizards.com
It's followed by Invisibility and Hiding and why you might want to do both.
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Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Players initiating checks is one of the most contentious topics on these forums. It’s right up there with racist orcs and GNS theory.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
Celebrim
Legend
Tying your shoes is a DC 0 Use Rope skill check. It generally can't be failed except by characters with penalties on their skill check and even then only rarely.
As a GM I probably wouldn't ask for a skill check because there are no consequences at stake. Unlike your experiences as a 5 year old, untied shoes aren't actually particularly a problem, as most people's stride is longer than their laces once they get up to age 12 or so. It might be a problem if you were climbing over moving machinery, but I feel that's better left to color.
However, as a GM I definitely embrace the power of skill checks with DCs below 10 as an interesting way to add color to encounters and to encourage skill breadth.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Yeah, though JC’s ruling on passive perception pretty direct contradicts what the PHB says on the matter and if extended to other passive abilities would functionally mean every character has reliable talent (an 11th level rogue feature!) Even if limited only to perception that’s pretty bonkers.As an aside, Sage Advice says that an "Active Search" using perception can never miss something that the "Passive Perception" value would have found. So apparently in at least some common cases the perception roll is effectively bounded below by the passive perception - and that one might ask for a roll when trying to take time and do better. (Around 23:20 in the link below).
It's followed by Invisibility and Hiding and why you might want to do both.
Dragon Talk | Official D&D Podcast | Dungeons & Dragons
Each week, the D&D team sits down with celebrities and personalities from across gaming and pop culture to discuss the world's greatest roleplaying game.
