D&D General "I make a perception check."

[GMforPowergamers]

That may have been me or @iserith, as that is how we both handle “recall lore” type actions. Though to clarify, I ask that players say what they hope to learn and where they may have learned it. So, your example satisfies the first (they want to learn if they have seen the symbol or anything like it before), but not where they would have learned it. So I would request the player suggest something from the character’s background where they might have come across such information. And it’s fine if it’s made up on the spot.

wow... I was afraid because I had joked about it sense I may have made it too much... andyour like "need more details" I am floored by that.
if i remember a relevent skill i will often just ask teh player to roll it, but if they just ask "Can I arcana that?" i get what they mean

 

[GMforPowergamers]

We’ve been over how I understand the rules for passive checks to work. By my reading are for actions (so, active) performed repeatedly over time.

and I don;t understand that reading of the word passive at all

You may disagree with that interpretation, and that’s fine, but at my table there is no distinction between a “passive walking around score” and an “active looking around roll.”

still don't understand how passive and active are not diffrent.

The score represents the results of you actively looking around, repeatedly, as you explore the dungeon. If you have to think of it as me houseruling, so be it.

 

[Reynard]

wow... I was afraid because I had joked about it sense I may have made it too much... andyour like "need more details" I am floored by that.
if i remember a relevent skill i will often just ask teh player to roll it, but if they just ask "Can I arcana that?" i get what they mean

I don't think is has anything to do with "not getting what they mean." That's not why we ask for more information.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I explain passive versus active skills as:

"Take your time to solve this long division problem" versus "What's the answer RIGHT NOW!

Within your ability and plenty of time, you will almost always solve it. On the spot, the better your skill the better your chance under pressure.

yeah... I glance for a moment and say 724

or i take a minute with pen and paper and get to 724

just cause at first glance i can't tell you the answer doesn't mean i cna't find it

 

[Charlaquin]

wow... I was afraid because I had joked about it sense I may have made it too much... andyour like "need more details" I am floored by that.
if i remember a relevent skill i will often just ask teh player to roll it, but if they just ask "Can I arcana that?" i get what they mean

You’re still thinking of it in terms of “enough detail” vs. “not enough detail.” The level of detail isn’t what matters to me though, it’s the content conveyed. “I try to remember if I saw this in my arcane studies” is just as good as “I think wistfully back to the days when I was but a wee lass and my dear, loving grandfather would take me upon his knee and tell me such wonderful stories of his adventures in his own youth as a traveling scholar; oh if only I could recall, did he ever mention seeing something of this sort?”

Actually, the former is much, much better than the latter, because it gets straight to the point. Tells me exactly what I need to know in a clear and concise way.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

See, the way I view it is if you have all the time you need to solve one long division problem… that’s just an auto-success because as you say, you will almost always solve it given enough time (and I don’t think accounting for the small minority of cases where you don’t is very fun or interesting). A passive check is for an action performed repeatedly. So it’s more like “solve these several pages of long division problems.” Once again, given unlimited time, you succeed automatically. But if you have a limited time, a passive check will tell you how you did overall: about average given your level of skill.

now as D&D players we may skew a little toward the 'good at math' side, but someone who has not been shown how to do division before may not even understand what 5 divided by 2 means... let alone how to solve it... and 974/17 would look more like an odd address then math to them

 

[Cadence]

Personally I don’t use passive checks to resolve actions secretly. I only use them for the results of actions performed repeatedly over time. Primarily, they come up when keeping watch for danger while traveling or exploring.

For you, if a party is traveling along, what are the differences in perception checks they get to find an ambush (or whatnot) if they're traveling full speed and looking around as they go vs. traveling half speed so they can take more time being observant?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't think is has anything to do with "not getting what they mean." That's not why we ask for more information.

but that is what is so confusing.

if you know that 'diplomancy' means something in context, and can under stand what they mean, I don't get making them rephrase it

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You’re still thinking of it in terms of “enough detail” vs. “not enough detail.” The level of detail isn’t what matters to me though,

but it does... You want me to add a detail of where I may have heard it

the funny part is that then makes me the player have to know what it is... like it's an arcane rune from the city of tyr... but I grew up in tyr my first few years before I went to sigil to learn advanced (aka beyond cantrip) magics then I apprenticed for 3 years under a genasi... so knowing that BUT NOT KNOWING IT IS FROM TYR, I say "I remember back to being in sigil and learning advance magic" but that isn't really as helpful as "I think back to my early years in tyr"
no seeing the symbol and just thinking if I saw it before or could figure it out I SHOULD be able to remember if I ran into it in tyr weather I verbalize that or not.

it’s the content conveyed. “I try to remember if I saw this in my arcane studies” is just as good as “I think wistfully back to the days when I was but a wee lass and my dear, loving grandfather would take me upon his knee and tell me such wonderful stories of his adventures in his own youth as a traveling scholar; oh if only I could recall, did he ever mention seeing something of this sort?”

except all of that can be relayed with "Can I arcana that?"
what additional relevant information are you getting?

Actually, the former is much, much better than the latter, because it gets straight to the point. Tells me exactly what I need to know in a clear and concise way.

i am at a loss that you think your way is more concise...

 

[Charlaquin]

For you, if a party is traveling along, what are the perception checks they get to find an ambush (or whatnot) if they're traveling full speed and looking around as they go vs. traveling half speed so they can take more time being observant?

While traveling, keeping watch for danger is one of several ongoing tasks you can perform (other options include but are not limited to making a map, navigating, tracking...) Each character can only perform one of these tasks at a time. While keeping watch for danger, you can only be surprised by a creature if its Dexterity (Stealth) check beats your passive Wisdom (Perception). While traveling at a fast pace, your passive Wisdom (Perception) is at a -5 penalty. I’m pretty sure this is entirely by-the-book.