D&D General "I make a perception check."

[Thomas Shey]

In most fantasy I have watched or read there was never a character in the fiction which followed around and mapped everywhere the group went. Because it is something no one needs in real life. You can go in to unexplored areas, wander around and leave without mapping a thing and still being able to know where everything is. You can even describe it to someone who has never been there and they could follow the same path based on just a verbal description.

I would suggest that was because traditionally it was used in areas that were, to one degree or another, both extensive and labyrinthine. It is entirely possible to get lost both leaving and trying to find your way back to specific places under those circumstances; I've seen people regularly do so with extensive suburban housing complexes on numerous occasions. I think you're giving people credit for more consistent spatial memory than is commonly the case, especially under the circumstances at hand (similarly, I've seen people get lost in extensive buildings, especially when the signage was inadequate.

Essentially, if your premise was true, most maps wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

[Cadence]

Mapping can't be done while running, agreed. This is regardless if you believe the player or the character is actually doing the mapping. On B19 it says "Maps are drawn to help players visualized the area their characters are exploring and to provide a record of sections of a dungeon they have already explored. A good mapper should listen closely to the DM in order to draw a good representation of the dungeon."

It feels like Moldvay plays a bit loose with player vs. character compared to some books today or ENWorld discussions, so I don't know how much I'd make of that:

That being said...

In most fantasy I have watched or read there was never a character in the fiction which followed around and mapped everywhere the group went. Because it is something no one needs in real life. You can go in to unexplored areas, wander around and leave without mapping a thing and still being able to know where everything is. You can even describe it to someone who has never been there and they could follow the same path based on just a verbal description.

Now I'm curious if any of the books in any edition have something about the map being stealable from the party. Also, how was mapping mentioned in the game excerpts in B/X? (I certainly don't remember a character ever having to drop the pen and paper for mapping to draw a sword in writing or in play).

 

[Reynard]

Mapping can't be done while running, agreed. This is regardless if you believe the player or the character is actually doing the mapping. On B19 it says "Maps are drawn to help players visualized the area their characters are exploring and to provide a record of sections of a dungeon they have already explored. A good mapper should listen closely to the DM in order to draw a good representation of the dungeon."

In most fantasy I have watched or read there was never a character in the fiction which followed around and mapped everywhere the group went. Because it is something no one needs in real life. You can go in to unexplored areas, wander around and leave without mapping a thing and still being able to know where everything is. You can even describe it to someone who has never been there and they could follow the same path based on just a verbal description.

The map is the same thing as a character sheet, something players use to visualize the fictitious space. Now I know everybody under the sun does not agree, but reading the text this is what Moldvey is saying to me. It is a necessary convenance for playing. Time and Movement give the DM a measuring stick to gauge how much information to release at any given time. The map is the container the players put this information in. A character doesn't need a map because they know where they are in relation to where they have been, just like in real life.

You literally just ignored the quoted portion of the rule book that says that character movement rates are based on mapping, and that characters can't map while fleeing danger.

 

[iserith]

My experience with mapping in the good ol' days was that you make the map so that you can deduce where secret doors and chambers might be found since the chance of finding those with the dice was pretty low. That's how I remember it anyway. I also remember that the mapper was always the person who was in the bathroom when people were choosing their party roles because nobody wanted to do it.

 

[Bill Zebub]

My experience with mapping in the good ol' days was that you make the map so that you can deduce where secret doors and chambers might be found since the chance of finding those with the dice was pretty low. That's how I remember it anyway. I also remember that the mapper was always the person who was in the bathroom when people were choosing their party roles because nobody wanted to do it.

Or the guy yelling “WHERE ARE THE CHEETOZ!?!??” from the kitchen….

 

[Jay Murphy1]

You literally just ignored the quoted portion of the rule book that says that character movement rates are based on mapping, and that characters can't map while fleeing danger.

"A base movement rate of 120' in ten minutes may seem slow, but it assumes that the players are mapping carefully searching, and trying to trying to be quiet. It also takes into account the generally 'dark and dingy' conditions of the dungeon in which characters are adventuring."

No where is it inferred or spelled out characters drop the ink and parchment and whip out their sword when the goblins appear. It is an out of game artifact to facilitate play.

Also, the paragraph on B19, "It is most important to record proper directions, shape, and approximate size, rather than spending a lot of time determining exact measurements and filling in minute details." When I purchase a map it has exact measurements and minute details. If I was making a map like George Washington surveying the Appalachians it would be filled with exact measurements and minute details. Once again, a visual aid to facilitate play. Not an act of in game play.

 

[Charlaquin]

This is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand…

 

[Cadence]

"A base movement rate of 120' in ten minutes may seem slow, but it assumes that the players are mapping carefully searching, and trying to trying to be quiet. It also takes into account the generally 'dark and dingy' conditions of the dungeon in which characters are adventuring."

No where is it inferred or spelled out characters drop the ink and parchment and whip out their sword when the goblins appear. It is an out of game artifact to facilitate play.

Why does the movement rate depend on the "players... trying to be quiet"? How do the "players" search for traps?

It feels like Moldvay wasn't distinguishing very carefully.

The point about the pen and paper feels quite a bit stronger to me!

 

[Cadence]

This is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand…

It feels like CHEETOZ are always relevant

 

[Jay Murphy1]

It feels like CHEETOZ are always relevant

They are the devil. And Ice Cream.