D&D (2024) Bonus languages in One D&D backgrounds goes contrary to their other goals

[Charlaquin]

Not by default, according to the OP.

OP is mistaken.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

That is wild to me. I know languages get effectively taken out of the game once characters have enough spell slots to cast Tongues without worrying they'll be left defensive, but languages come up in my games all the time. You are playing very different games than I am.

It's very GM-dependant, I guess. Languages are giving a lot of flavour to our games as well. We even assign real-world equivalent to use at the table to signify we're speaking draconic or infernal. I won't say which is which publicly.

With regards to atypical languages, the sample in the playtest already include some odd choices:

Laborer picking up Dwarf because you're apprenticed to someone who was apprenticed to a dwarf (and obviously kept teaching dwarf to his apprentices because he's... some kind of snotty guy? "Look students, today we'll start studying philosophy. However, let's start by learning greek because, frankly, many good books are in greek...". There is no assumption that the current laborer has ever even seen a dwarf. And the background for Noble includes Draconic with a mention of "Was it truly necessary to read all those ancient history in their original draconic?". There is no relationship between draconic and nobility except that your family had some ideas on education you don't share (but you still know draconic).

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, I'd have preferred if they'd chosen examples like these tbh. But when I was reading it for the first time, I thought that actually some of them were initially counter-intuitive, then I went "oh yes, of course!" when I read the descriptions, because I saw how they fit in with some of the settings. Conversely, some of them did go with very specific rationales - Giant for scout, for example, learned from some friendly druids - and I think the implication that gladiators would know Orcish is something they ought to have avoided. There isn't even anything really in the description they used that specifically points to Orcish; they mention other races as fellow performers as well.

The problem is, you have to actually read the fluff to notice that

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, nobles knowing Draconic is an extremely weird one. I could see Halflings, as a people who often travel. I could see Elves, which I could easily see as diplomats. Dragons are hard, unless it's because you expect to have to convince them not to eat all the princesses.

It's a good example of why "pick a language" should just be put there, even in a sample background.

 

[Cadence]

Yeah, nobles knowing Draconic is an extremely weird one. I could see Halflings, as a people who often travel. I could see Elves, which I could easily see as diplomats. Dragons are hard, unless it's because you expect to have to convince them not to eat all the princesses.

It's a good example of why "pick a language" should just be put there, even in a sample background.

Make Draconic like Latin? Only the religious, scholars, and nobles know it usually. And they begrudge the Dragonborn of their number for not having to suffer through memorizing the grammar rules and coming to it inately.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the solution is to learn languages from multiple sources, as it is in the 2014 edition.

We haven’t seen classes yet to know if they grant languages, but I would assume those that did in 2014 will still do so in 2024, and that learning language will still be something you can do during downtime. But starting languages still need to come from somewhere. And they certainly shouldn’t come from race. Background makes sense to me. But wherever they come from, there should be examples with the language pre-selected so players who don’t want to decide don’t have to.

The acolyte shouldn't learn Celestial, they should learn "the liturgical language of their faith (consult your DM)" but the cleric should also get the same note, along with the obligatory note that if they already know that language, they can pick another. (I have a paladin in my campaign who was also a village priest, and the division of cleric and acolyte is one that's always pleased me, even if they often overlap.)

And they should definitely not be called the same thing as their species. (Again, can you imagine doing that with a D&D setting book about contemporary Earth?) For orcs in the Forgotten Realms, I might go with "Many-Voices," with the language being officially standardized during the time of Many-Arrows, and given a name to match?

Yeah, on that we are in agreement.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Make Draconic like Latin? Only the religious, scholars, and nobles know it usually. And they begrudge the Dragonborn of their number for not having to suffer through memorizing the grammar rules and coming to it inately.

I use Celestial that way in my campaign.

I have a hard time picturing dragons having the patience to sit down and write books and no reason for the bards and scholars who interview them to do so.

 

[Thommy H-H]

The problem is, you have to actually read the fluff to notice that

Yeah...I'm realising that a lot of people haven't...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah...I'm realising that a lot of people haven't...

Folks here are Talmudic scholars compared to the folks on YouTube. Some of those videos have to be seen to be believed.

 

[Cadence]

I use Celestial that way in my campaign.

I have a hard time picturing dragons having the patience to sit down and write books and no reason for the bards and scholars who interview them to do so.

Seems un-bardy to not use oral tradition, but it feels like scholars would want to write everything down.