D&D (2024) Inspiration From Nat 20 Will Bog Down The Game

[Bill Zebub]

But not remembering a new rule on the second time you are using it? That's not uncommon.

If crits had never been a thing and suddenly was a new rule, you can bet people would be forgetting to roll that extra damage.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Forgetting bless is practically a meme. It is why my table adopted the term "#Blessed" to remind people. But talk to anyone into optimization and Bless is the greatest tool on the table and worth using all the time. So it is clearly powerful, it is just easy to forget.

I don't know if it is a meme in 5e, in 3e when it was +1 it was... now all our experiences are different, but in my games any campaign with bless being used we mostly remember it (I wont say we NEVER forget bonuses) but since we use roll20 now and just have a check mark to hit for 'bless' when it is cast and to uncheck when it goes down nobody CAN forget it anymore.

But if you think the bless spell needs to be reworked so that it is more memorable I will 100% back that.

Now, to roll this back, if the end goal of this debate is that we want Inspiration to be able to be used for re-rolls... I'm 100% on board with that.

my end goal is 1 of 2 options... either A) do not use it on main line effects (rolls of 20, human race, musician feat so far) or B ) make it more memorable and intuitive... making it a reroll is part of B.

But not remembering a new rule on the second time you are using it? That's not uncommon.

no, but if you listen to my (and others some in this very thread) feed back (and I hope WotC will listen in a few days) it isn't "we don't like inspiration" or "The first time we tried it we couldn't grasp it" its "We have tried over and over and it is both forgettable and not that big of a change so we don't often use it"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If crits had never been a thing and suddenly was a new rule, you can bet people would be forgetting to roll that extra damage.

I don't know I think that 20's come up so infrequently that when they do they are noticed. the extra damage (IMO) would have come out more of "Oh wow I get to do double damage now"

to put this in perspective, a sub group of my D&D players play TORG. In that game a special effect goes off (Details unimportant) on rolling a 10 or a 20. Game night one we had someone roll a 10 and say "Cool that's like a crit right" even though it wasn't a 20. The added effect was BIG enough and IMPORANT and pretty INTUATIVE so that night 1 session 1 we all got it.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don't know I think that 20's come up so infrequently that when they do they are noticed.

The interesting thing is that 14's occur exactly as infrequently, but we don't notice those.

I suspect the reason we notice 20's is that crit damage has made them special, and we've all been trained to look for them.

And, in time, players will remember they also get Inspiration.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The interesting thing is that 14's occur exactly as infrequently, but we don't notice those.

but we would if a new mechanic said it (unless the mechanic was unintuitive and weak) see my TORG example where we went from 20's crit to 20's and 10's crit (not exactly the same)
also see when we play WoD and roll 10 sided dice and 1's and 10's matter... unless you are specialized then 9's 10's and 1's matter... I have never seen a table that said "Man we keep forgetting specializations"

back in 3e a friend had a house rule base on evens and odds... on ALL dice, and it took a little bit to get into the swing of it but we were not constantly forgetting.

I don't know why you are opposed to the feed back?

I suspect the reason we notice 20's is that crit damage has made them special, and we've all been trained to look for them.

I suspect it is the max number/ min number... because I see people get super happy rolling 'box cars' on 2d6 or sad at 'snake eyes' but really it is just the highest and lowest numbers possible.

and again this wouldn't explain why it was so easy to see 10's on a d20 as a crit when we played TORG

And, in time, players will remember they also get Inspiration.

except my (and others on this very thread) feed back is that no, nothing has made them memorable yet.

 

[MarkB]

no, but if you listen to my (and others some in this very thread) feed back (and I hope WotC will listen in a few days) it isn't "we don't like inspiration" or "The first time we tried it we couldn't grasp it" its "We have tried over and over and it is both forgettable and not that big of a change so we don't often use it"

It's forgettable because it relies upon a nebulous requirement to be both fulfilled by the player and acknowledged by the DM.

And it's rarely used once rewarded because the player knows it's rare, and thus holds off on using it until they're in a pinch - at which point they forget about it in the excitement of the moment.

The new version goes a long way towards solving both of those, being triggered by a concrete event that players are already primed to take notice of, and - as a result - showing up frequently enough that players should be more inclined to spend it relatively freely.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's forgettable because it relies upon a nebulous requirement to be both fulfilled by the player and acknowledged by the DM.

And it's rarely used once rewarded because the player knows it's rare, and thus holds off on using it until they're in a pinch - at which point they forget about it in the excitement of the moment.

The new version goes a long way towards solving both of those, being triggered by a concrete event that players are already primed to take notice of, and - as a result - showing up frequently enough that players should be more inclined to spend it relatively freely.

okay and my feed back (2 weeks in we used it 2 weeks in 1 game and 1 week in the other so 3 sessions total) is that it was not very helpful. it is too easily forgotten, and not beneficial enough.

I did a count for a different argument on how often my players roll with advantage vs normal vs with disadvantage. It came out about 60% of the time they had advantage, about 10% of the time they had disadvantage... I wish I remembered the exact numbers but it was looking back over multi game sessions and 2 campaigns. (the argument was dumb about using description to grant advantage and me not giving it enough) So maybe in this I am an outlier. (also i don't allow flanking because it seems they have advantage enough without that) this new rule (if we remember it) will increase the advantage and decrease the disadvantage.

 

[MarkB]

okay and my feed back (2 weeks in we used it 2 weeks in 1 game and 1 week in the other so 3 sessions total) is that it was not very helpful. it is too easily forgotten, and not beneficial enough.

Fine, but there have been other playtest reports where players took to the rule enthusiastically, remembered it consistently and got a lot of use out of it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Fine, but there have been other playtest reports where players took to the rule enthusiastically, remembered it consistently and got a lot of use out of it.

so does that mean if you are asked for feed back on a meal you don't like you wont tell them because someone else DID like it?

 

[MarkB]

so does that mean if you are asked for feed back on a meal you don't like you wont tell them because someone else DID like it?

No, it means that I'll acknowledge that the meal is not for me, without advocating that the restaurant remove it from their menu entirely and thus deny it to those diners who do enjoy it.