D&D 5E Are Wizards really all that?

[James Gasik]

Farmers cottages, no. Castles, yes.

Or not, and let Wizards be all that. It’s a simple equation.

This requires you to go beyond the rules and create additional content to "balance" spellcasters, however. If these things were the default, then they would be presented in the game.

Before I continue on this point, I'm ok with countermeasures as long as they make sense in the game world (my immersion, man!). If the game world has magic well known enough by the populace that specific counters to specific spells are a thing I can encounter, that's fine.

But saying "well, of course castles have protections against Leomund's Miniature Fortress" is akin to saying "well, of course Wizard towers have powerful magnetic traps to prevent stabby Fighters".

 

[James Gasik]

I think just knowledge on spells isn't hard to justify, Lizard McWizard wrote the best selling book "Fantastic Spells and How to Counter Them" 100 years ago, and it became mandatory reading for all children in the nation's schools.

I do think the average person should know more about magic than most settings go with, if someone can control your mind or kill you with a word, you'd want to know how that works out exactly.

Ironically this happened canonically in the Forgotten Realms when Volo wrote his guide to All Things Magic, which had him on the run from angry Wizards for years. Most copies were hunted down and destroyed as a result, to prevent this knowledge from becoming common.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I do think the average person should know more about magic than most settings go with, if someone can control your mind or kill you with a word, you'd want to know how that works out exactly.

If our analogue is non-tech people understanding tech, then yes. With caveats.

But it’s interesting to think about official rules for countering magic in ways that are poorly understood and subject to RNG. For example, maybe there is a bunch of folklore about how to protect yourself against “wizards” and it actually has a (small-ish) chance of interfering with PC magic, but each player rolls independently.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'm ok with countermeasures as long as they make sense in the game world (my immersion, man!).

Yes…and that is incredibly subjective.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Ironically this happened canonically in the Forgotten Realms when Volo wrote his guide to All Things Magic, which had him on the run from angry Wizards for years. Most copies were hunted down and destroyed as a result, to prevent this knowledge from becoming common.

I truly can't fathom how you could keep magic knowledge secret in FR, they have more archmages than commoners there.

 

[James Gasik]

I truly can't fathom how you could keep magic knowledge secret in FR, they have more archmages than commoners there.

Simple, really. Elminster basically described the situation as a magical cold war in Spellfire. All the powerful wizards know that if one of them gets too far out of line, the situation would rapidly escalate out of proportion, with everyone jumping in (turning it into a World War I scenario). Which is why he doesn't go straight up against Manshoon, for example, because they know powerful magics and have allies and resources that, once brought into play, could reshape the world in a way that benefits no one.

(As an aside, this was always my explanation for the Spellplague).

So there are two Realms, you see. The visible world of adventurers and dungeons and dragons, and the secret game the powerful magic users play, with subtle moves and countermoves as well as certain "gentleman's agreements".

A veil of secrecy serves the spellcasters best.

And it's worth noting that powerful spellcasters in the Realms do have access to vast spy networks- The Harpers being the best known example.

 

[James Gasik]

Yes…and that is incredibly subjective.

I concur, it is subjective. But unless your campaign is wall-to-wall Wizards like, say, the Forgotten Realms, specific details about how spells work are not going to be known.

Also, even if countermeasures to a given spell did become common, nothing really stops Wizards from researching new versions of those spells to overcome said countermeasures, turning this into a magical arms race.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Simple, really. Elminster basically described the situation as a magical cold war in Spellfire. All the powerful wizards know that if one of them gets too far out of line, the situation would rapidly escalate out of proportion, with everyone jumping in (turning it into a World War I scenario). Which is why he doesn't go straight up against Manshoon, for example, because they know powerful magics and have allies and resources that, once brought into play, could reshape the world in a way that benefits no one.

(As an aside, this was always my explanation for the Spellplague).

So there are two Realms, you see. The visible world of adventurers and dungeons and dragons, and the secret game the powerful magic users play, with subtle moves and countermoves as well as certain "gentleman's agreements".

A veil of secrecy serves the spellcasters best.

And it's worth noting that powerful spellcasters in the Realms do have access to vast spy networks- The Harpers being the best known example.

So it's the opposite of what people have been talking about, instead of not having enough Wizards for magic knowledge to be common, Wizards just rule the world from the shadows and don't let people know how they do things.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Simple, really. Elminster basically described the situation as a magical cold war in Spellfire. All the powerful wizards know that if one of them gets too far out of line, the situation would rapidly escalate out of proportion, with everyone jumping in (turning it into a World War I scenario). Which is why he doesn't go straight up against Manshoon, for example, because they know powerful magics and have allies and resources that, once brought into play, could reshape the world in a way that benefits no one.

(As an aside, this was always my explanation for the Spellplague).

So there are two Realms, you see. The visible world of adventurers and dungeons and dragons, and the secret game the powerful magic users play, with subtle moves and countermoves as well as certain "gentleman's agreements".

A veil of secrecy serves the spellcasters best.

And it's worth noting that powerful spellcasters in the Realms do have access to vast spy networks- The Harpers being the best known example.

That all is perfectly logical.

And…if you think wizards are too powerful, why, among all the possible fictions you could adopt, would you pick one that makes wizards more powerful?

 

[James Gasik]

That all is perfectly logical.

And…if you think wizards are too powerful, why, among all the possible fictions you could adopt, would you pick one that makes wizards more powerful?

We could ask WotC that question, given how much they seem to like using the Forgotten Realms!