D&D (2024) Elf

[MechaTarrasque]

According to the DMG, there are plenty of celestial elves hanging around Arborea. I think "you are really a celestial, fey, or fiend, but everyone thinks you are humanoid" (or more officially Extraplanar Origin) sounds like a good background with the "roll a d8" table for why you are slumming it up in the mortal realms. Especially if 8. is "Lolth in her demon lord mode took a fancy to you, and you saw what happened to the last guy or girl she hooked up with, so time to visit one of those quaint mortal realms (for your health)." I figure demon lord Lolth is probably amused by your escape attempt (and think of the fun she will have when she comes to get you; spider-based curses for everyone in a 1000-mile radius), and no one actually escapes goddess mode Lolth.

 

[Yaarel]

According to the DMG, there are plenty of celestial elves hanging around Arborea. I think "you are really a celestial, fey, or fiend, but everyone thinks you are humanoid" (or more officially Extraplanar Origin) sounds like a good background with the "roll a d8" table for why you are slumming it up in the mortal realms. Especially if 8. is "Lolth in her demon lord mode took a fancy to you, and you saw what happened to the last guy or girl she hooked up with, so time to visit one of those quaint mortal realms (for your health)." I figure demon lord Lolth is probably amused by your escape attempt (and think of the fun she will have when she comes to get you; spider-based curses for everyone in a 1000-mile radius), and no one actually escapes goddess mode Lolth.

The stories about Corellon and Lolth were emerging earlier than when 4e standardized the Feywild and Shadowfell. How these two planes relate to the material and astral planes seems a bit awkward in corner cases. In various senses, the Elf is all four planes: fey, material, astral, even shadow Shadar-kai.

Regarding the earlier terms "outer planes", I call all of it "astral". These are "astral dominions" in the "astral sea", and all of it is in the astral plane. So a technical jargon "astral" can include both celestial and fiend, as well as whatever the modrons and slaadi are.

I want a return of the 4e jargon "planar origin", distinct from "creature type".



I am still less sure how to type the Elf. I went back and changed the original post from "fey touched" to "fey ancestry", even tho it seems narratively less accurate. It is more familiar for 5e jargon. I might revisit it if I have a more solid sense how elven origin relates to taxonomy.

If I look at the terms in a certain way, I think I can find a "Humanoid of Fey Ancestry" sensical.



Different aspects of the elf matter to different players.

For example, Tolkien fans (similarly Greyhawk) might emphasize the material plane, and how for them the elves are more like a human ethnicity with a hint of magic.

For British folkbelief fans, the elf is a humanlike fairy, thus they might emphasize the D&D fey plane. Likewise, 4e fans might champion the elves and eladrin of the Feywild.

The astral domains are the setting for Corellon and Lolth. Corellon is a celestial and Lolth eventually becomes a fiend. Corellon is a shapechanger. The elves parthenogenically grow into shapes from the blood of Corellon, thus are celestial as well, according this narrative. The fans of this setting might emphasize the astral plane for the elves.

I am a fan of Norse folkbelief, where the elf is an animistic nature being. To translate this concept into D&D, they are normal features of nature in the material plane, literally elementals who are native to the material plane. They are the fire of sunlight with its air (Norse) and the earth of fertile soil with its bodies of water (Celtic).

I have made my peace with elves being fey. The idea is, the Feywild is one of the echoes of the material plane. When the normal features of nature animistically project their mind/spirit into a human form (or any other form), these immaterial forms happen in the fey plane of existence. This works well enough in 5e. The only difference is, I emphasize how the Feywild overlaps the material plane, in the same way that the ethereal plane and the Shadowfell do. From the Feywild one sees the material plane, albeit it appears vibrantly. Each fey creature is the projection of some specific feature of nature in the material plane. Animism is all about the physical world, there is nowhere else. So animistic beings journey the "border" of the material plane.

For example, each naiad in the fey plane is a specific wellspring gurgling water somewhere in the material plane. Each hamadryad is a specific tree somewhere. The dryad is more a manifestation of some forest collectively. Similarly, the elf is more sunlight collectively, or fertile soil collectively. In any case, this one-to-one connection between material nature and a fey being is important.

(How to reconcile this animistic view with Corellon and Lolth? The two figures exist in some of my settings. I treat them as the "Adam and Eve" sotospeak of the elf family. The two are elves albeit now at epic levels. Perhaps Lolth led a faction of elves from the astral to the material. In the aftermath of a conflict, Corellon sent almost all shapeshifting elves from the astral plane to the material plane, where they lost their ability to shapechange. They became specific features of normal nature, including sunlight and soil. From there, these natural features can animistically project their thoughts into humanoid forms within the fey plane. From the fey plane, their magic visits other planes of existence. Some made their remote projections materialize into humanoids of flesh and blood in the material plane. In other words, elves are avatars of features of nature and maintain a vital connection to nature.)

Elves can become creatures of any plane of existence. If the technical term "Humanoid creature type" means simultaneously both astral and material, perhaps this creature type makes sense for elves. (They are astral thought become material objects of nature.) By contrast the elves with Corellon are astral only, specifically celestial, and never became humanoid.

(The Fey Ancestry might make sense if every "humanoid elf" ultimately derives from the fey plane − from an animistic manifestation of some material natural feature to there. The nonhumanoid "celestial elf" has nothing to do with this entanglement with materiality. Perhaps the humanoid elves who are still in the fey plane have a more direct connection with the material element they project from.)

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think humanoid means you are subject to the range of emotions that humans in the real world are capable of feeling. The emotional spectrum of a fey elf would be different than a humanoid elf, even if they appeared the same (I highly recommend CJ Cheryl's excellent Foreigner series of books where emotions that look the same for two different species of sentient beings but are really very different is a big plot point). Ditto celestial elves, and if Shadowfell-dwelling elves went full monstrosity (like pretty everything else in the 'Fell) or if Lolth changed the Drow into fiends, their emotional spectrums would all be different. It is why generic humanoids tend to be "any" alignment in 1 D&D and aberrations, celestials, fiends, fey, etc. tend to be "usually" a specific alignment.

 

[Yaarel]

I think humanoid means you are subject to the range of emotions that humans in the real world are capable of feeling. The emotional spectrum of a fey elf would be different than a humanoid elf, even if they appeared the same (I highly recommend CJ Cheryl's excellent Foreigner series of books where emotions that look the same for two different species of sentient beings but are really very different is a big plot point). Ditto celestial elves, and if Shadowfell-dwelling elves went full monstrosity (like pretty everything else in the 'Fell) or if Lolth changed the Drow into fiends, their emotional spectrums would all be different. It is why generic humanoids tend to be "any" alignment in 1 D&D and aberrations, celestials, fiends, fey, etc. tend to be "usually" a specific alignment.

Surprisingly, 5e never quite defines term "humanoid", despite it being central to the game.

Your point that the term denotes the same range of emotion − and I would add rationality − that humans exhibit seems the most useful and consistent definition. To be humanoid means to have a humanlike mentality and personality.

Some humanoids are immaterial − like eladrin and shadar-kai who are creatures of the spiritworld. So, material flesh and blood is ultimately irrelevant. Humans whose afterlife include astral dominions and shadowfell and perhaps elsewhere, are likewise immaterial spirits but are presumably still humanoid. For humans, materiality remains significant. But the human spirit can separate from it.

Ultimately, the human mentality is what makes a humanoid, humanlike.

This mentality also mechanically allows players to roleplay nonhuman characters in normal human ways.

 

[Yaarel]

In the Norse view, when the nature beings take a human form, they really do become "humanoid", sotospeak. They behave emotionally and intellectually like humans do.

Nature itself − the features of the land and the sky and the sea − are absolutely nonhuman. A mountain is a mountain. However, when a feature projects out from its source in a way that takes on a form, a human form behaves like human in every way. If materializing to live the life of a human, the avatar sotospeak can bleed like human and can fall in love like a human and have human kids with an other human.

They are eccentric humans, of course. Their natural origin remains part of who they are and the wider perspective where they are coming from. Their personality and magic often resonates the source natural feature. Human offspring can inherit these characteristics.

The Norse elf has a perspective that can include foreseeing the future of certain individuals. But otherwise, when they take on a human form, they behave in a way that a human would who also has this information.

There is a saga about a jǫtnar called Bárðr. He is the mind of a specific mountain in Norway. He chose to become an actual human, lived a human life, sailed to Iceland, and had kids there. It seems, when he became a physical human body he disconnected in some way from the physical mountain − in other words, he emigrated the family of jǫtnar and immigrated to the family of humanity. By magic, he became a different kind of nature being, a human one. But he retains affinity with his mountainous origin. He got homesick for his life as a jǫtnar, and eventually returned to being a jǫtnar once again, this time becoming the mind of a different mountain in Iceland. He still retains a love for humanity and occasionally manifests to rescue humans who find themselves in danger while on this Icelandic mountain.

Similarly, a Norse account identifies Vǫlundr as an elf, who becomes a human. The text is complex with later euhemeristic additions. Nevertheless, the text evidences how the Norse perceive the elves to exhibit the same range of mentality and magic as the human shamans do, including the Norse female vǫlva as well as the male shamans among the Finlanders noita and the Sámi noaidi. The story describes Vǫlundr and his friends physicalizing from the sky in the form of swans. The six swans then shapechange into human forms. There are three men and three women. Like Vǫlundr, all appear to be elves. Hermeneutic analysis associates the women with the elven nornir, namely the fates, who are also the valkyrjur, a nickname for when the fates choose who dies honorably in battle. In this context, one or all three of these women elves are assigning fates that cause the three men to fall hopelessly in love with them. The women then disappear, probably returning back to the sky. But the elven men, going insane with love, then separate to go out in search of their lover. The story follows Vǫlundr. A human family captures, cripples, and (magically) enslaves him to create items of beauty and magic for them. The human man is a local king and the queen is probably the shaman who can entrap the elf. Vǫlundr suffers for many years as a human, but eventually breaks free while exacting a (not Good) gruesome vengeance upon the family. He murders their young children and rapes their adult daughter. He then shapeshifts into a swan and escapes back to the sky. His half-elf descendant later becomes an important national leader, which seems to have been part of the original intention of the elven women weaving these fates together.

The point is, the elves are fates and mages who can glimpse the future, at least the future of particular individuals. But they can and do fall in love in the same way that humans do. They exact revenge in emotional ways that some humans do. The elves even inflict future fates on each other, in the same way as they inflict fates on humans.

In D&D terms, these nature beings are humanoid, if manifesting in a humanoid form.

The cool thing is, to be a "nature being" is a background. A human can be a nature spirit. They might originate from some mountain, or sunlight, or waterfall. But while they are human, they can live a normal human life. At death, their minds return to the original nature feature. Perhaps the nature being gains an affinity with humanity and can mourn the death of their human avatar. Likewise, a nature being can take on any humanoid form: elf, dwarf, dragonborn, etcetera. Not all nature beings can manifest and shapeshift, only the ones who are magically powerful enough to do so. When a nature being manifests as a human, the human could be an infant and grow up naturally, or appear suddenly as an adult without a past.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Surprisingly, 5e never quite defines term "humanoid", despite it being central to the game.

Your point that the term denotes the same range of emotion − and I would add rationality − that humans exhibit seems the most useful and consistent definition. To be humanoid means to have a humanlike mentality and personality.

Some humanoids are immaterial − like eladrin and shadar-kai who are creatures of the spiritworld. So, material flesh and blood is ultimately irrelevant. Humans whose afterlife include astral dominions and shadowfell and perhaps elsewhere, are likewise immaterial spirits but are presumably still humanoid. For humans, materiality remains significant. But the human spirit can separate from it.

Ultimately, the human mentality is what makes a humanoid, humanlike.

This mentality also mechanically allows players to roleplay nonhuman characters in normal human ways.

I think the unofficial definition of humanoid in 5e was anything that could be a PC, so that everyone would be affected by the same set of spells (with a few exceptions like elves and sleep); it created controversy, but I think the ease of play was probably worth it. They are moving away from that, so there will probably be a little bit more solid definition of humanoid. Since Planescape is on (long) horizon, I suspect a couple of years from now, pretty much every type will be available to PC's (although beasts have to be awakened and limited to a type of animal that could pick up tools or weapons--apes, cephalopods, and raccoons and their kin).

 

[Yaarel]

In the MMM (Mordenkainen [Presents] Monsters [of the] Multiverse).

The eladrin monster stat blocks exhibit true magic resistance.

"
Magic Resistance. The eladrin has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

"

The elf race should eventually gain true magic resistance at a higher level as an aspect of Fey Ancestry. It can start as charm resistance and eventually becomes magic resistance. (Trance is what grants sleep immunity.)

Possibly magic resistance can be a higher tier feat. Preferably any elf gains it automatically while leveling.



Like spells, races should have the "At Higher Levels" mechanic.

At Higher Levels, every race should improve or gain traits at each tier: 5-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-20, and 21-24.



In addition to magic resistance at a higher tier, the elf might also gain higher level spells as Innate Spells.

 

[kapars]

It is indeed possible that for the sake of backward compatibility, 1dd race + background feat = base Monster of Multiverse or PHB race power level.

In the video that accompanies the playtest packet Jeremy Crawford states that the MotM races are to be used alongside the new PHB ones. It would be Eladrin + Starting Feat for example.

 

[Starfox]

My comment on the 6E elf is that it, like the 5E elf, seems overpowered. Compare it to the 6E teifling,l which is very smiliar except that it lacks some of the elf's abilities.

 

[Yaarel]

My comment on the 6E elf is that it, like the 5E elf, seems overpowered. Compare it to the 6E teifling,l which is very smiliar except that it lacks some of the elf's abilities.

Generally speaking. All of the 1DD (UA OneD&D) races reduce to a design space of about feat.

This small amount of design space is a regression. For example, the Dragonborns in Fizbans have more design space than the one in 1DD does. Likewise the Astral Elf in Spelljammer has more design space than the Elf in 1DD does.

Probably, 1DD does this because the extra feat at level 1 is now standard. Also note, the ability score improvements happen separately as part of ability score generation. Finally, this small amount of design space balances better with the 2014 Players Handbook races − especially after removing the ability score improvements from the Players Handbook races. For example, the Half Elf is the most powerful race in the Players Handbook, but after removing its +2 and two +1s, there is not much design space left over. Also note the Custom Lineage in Tashas is only a single feat of design space.

I can understand and sympathize why 1DD reduces its race format so draconianly.

Nevertheless, I feel there needs to be more design space so each race can do something satisfyingly flavorful and mechanically effective. 4e races are excellent here. By the time of Fizbans and Spelljammer 5e races also began to feel satisfying.

The 1DD races are a regression back to bare minimum.



Regarding the 1DD Tiefling specifically. Where a standard feat is about 8 points, the Tiefling race has:

2 points: Darkvision (≈ cantrip)
1½ points: Thaumaturgy cantrip
2 points: Firebolt or Chill Touch (but only 1 point if Poison Spray)
2 points: a useful resistance: versus fire, necrotic, or poison

Already the total is roughly 7½ points and is comparable to a feat.

On top of this, the tiefling also gains spells: a spell level 1 spell at character level 3 and and a spell level 2 spell at character level 5. These spells would actually be valuable but their delay to later levels makes them less valuable, relatively speaking. Normally, these two spells are worth about a half-feat, namely 4 points. (1½ points for a level 1 spell per long rest, and 2½ points for a level 2 spell per long rest). But to not get these at level 1 means the race design space at level 1 is less valuable.

For what it is worth, the 1DD Tiefling race feels more powerful than the 1DD Elf race.

Both races have cantrip and two spells. But otherwise, the Elf trance, charm resistance, and skill proficiency are all less valuable than what the Tiefling gets: better resistance plus extra decent cantrip. But generally, you can see how the designers are at least aiming to balance both races with each other.