D&D (2024) When are we getting the second playtest document?

[doctorbadwolf]

Half-Elf and Half-Orc from the 2014 PHB can still work in the game, is someone wants to use them, but this tefluff method is much, much less problematic.

No, it isn’t. It is vastly more problematic.

I am not just a Mexican who looks Anglo, my ex is not just a Jew who looks Black.

It is insultingly reductive, and actively erases mixed-race people from the “flagship” presentation of the game.

It’s the only thing that they’ve tested that has made me feel unwelcome in the game, or made me really angry.

 

[Parmandur]

No, it isn’t. It is vastly more problematic.

I am not just a Mexican who looks Anglo, my ex is not just a Jew who looks Black.

It is insultingly reductive, and actively erases mixed-race people from the “flagship” presentation of the game.

It’s the only thing that they’ve tested that has made me feel unwelcome in the game, or made me really angry.

I appreciate that you feel that way. But Mexicans and Anglos, Africans and Jews are all the same species, which is significantly different than the weirdness surrounding the traditional Half-Elf and Half-Orc. Increasing options and open-endedness in fluff is, imo, a worthwhile path to take. This makes creating a character occupying that cultural liminal space easier, not harder.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I appreciate that you feel that way. But Mexicans and Anglos, Africans and Jews are all the same species, which is significantly different than the weirdness surrounding the traditional Half-Elf and Half-Orc. Increasing options and open-endedness in fluff is, imo, a worthwhile path to take. This makes creating a character occupying that cultural liminal space easier, not harder.

Erasing existing mixed race representation in the game is not acceptable.

 

[Parmandur]

Erasing existing mixed race representation in the game is not acceptable.

But it isn't, it's reframing the mechanical representation to make new combinations more simple to implement. I have no doubt that Half-Elf and Half-Orc characters will remain in the art and fiction prominently. Heck, one of the main announcements at the WotC Presents is a webcomic starring a Half-Elf teenager, Half-Drow even. But now it is just as easy to put out a Half-Gnome/Dwarf character, or a Half-Kenku/Half-Tortle.

 

[Faolyn]

I appreciate that you feel that way. But Mexicans and Anglos, Africans and Jews are all the same species, which is significantly different than the weirdness surrounding the traditional Half-Elf and Half-Orc. Increasing options and open-endedness in fluff is, imo, a worthwhile path to take. This makes creating a character occupying that cultural liminal space easier, not harder.

I really don't think it would. It's just asking people to say "I'm a elf stat-wise, but really I'm actually half-elf, half-human" In a game where race is a second thought, that's fine, but in a game that historically has statted out every possible race and subrace, including probably twenty or so different types of elves, not giving a way for people to play the type of half-whatever they want is a big step backwards--and, as @doctorbadwolf said, pretty darn insulting to many people.

It would have been really simple for them to let people mix-and-match traits to create their half-whatevers. If they were really worried about balance, they could have simply put an asterisk next to one trait in every racial block and said that you could switch that one trait out for a different race's asterisk'd trait and then made sure that each asterisk'd trait was "equal" in terms of power.

 

[Parmandur]

but in a game that historically has statted out every possible race and subrace

I think that's a history they are looking to change. Hence making Background more important to the power equation than Race.

 

[Charlaquin]

I like that speculation is all over the map on this, from your comment here all the way to the comments directly above mine.

I think we will get groups of classes, to give testing time to process, and leave some buffer time in case anything bombs.

That’s speculation for you. We’re all just guessing based on little but our feelings.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Sure, but I thinknthey may have already done the calculus.

Sure, we agree on that. We only differ on which way the math lands. While I don't mind the new "refluff" method, I've listened to folks like @doctorbadwolf, and I hear them. I suspect WotC hears them too.

If they're not going to put in Half Elves and Half Orcs, then they HAVE to come up with a method to mix them properly (though they'd still be left with the fact that those two have an identity of their own in the game that doesn't exactly put them half-way between their "parents". (Half Orc less so, of course.)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm pretty bummed this is the way they decided the playtest would go.

Would have preferred the entire rule set drop so it was easier to see how everything interacted at the same time.

Also, reading about actual playtests instead of whiteboarding/speculating would be a lot more fun and informative.

I’ve seen a lot of actual playtesting accounts. The rest of the rules are just the existing rules.

But it isn't, it's reframing the mechanical representation to make new combinations more simple to implement.

I mean if you just don’t care because you like it, you can just say that.

I have no doubt that Half-Elf and Half-Orc characters will remain in the art and fiction prominently. Heck, one of the main announcements at the WotC Presents is a webcomic starring a Half-Elf teenager, Half-Drow even. But now it is just as easy to put out a Half-Gnome/Dwarf character, or a Half-Kenku/Half-Tortle.

Is it? Are you playing such a character if there is no mechanical difference between you and a Gnome, or a Kenku?

Beyond that, the optics matter. I’m hardly alone in seeing this as the rules telling me that my identity isn’t valid.

Sure, we agree on that. We only differ on which way the math lands. While I don't mind the new "refluff" method, I've listened to folks like @doctorbadwolf, and I hear them. I suspect WotC hears them too.

If they're not going to put in Half Elves and Half Orcs, then they HAVE to come up with a method to mix them properly (though they'd still be left with the fact that those two have an identity of their own in the game that doesn't exactly put them half-way between their "parents". (Half Orc less so, of course.)

Exactly this. D&D is a game wherein the mechanics are part of the story, and players want to have their story choices to have mechanical weight.

It’s be fine if they still had the half-elf and half-Orc in the new PHB, and had a little more mechanical mixing between your parent races.

But both reducing mixed heritage to “you’re one thing and can describe yourself how you want”, and removing the two most prominent mixed heritage races that have been part of the game for decades, feels like being told to gtfo.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean if you just don’t care because you like it, you can just say that.

I like it, yes, because I find it very much less problematic than the hybrid vigor/blood quantum ickiness inherent in traditional D&D Half-Elves and Half-Orcs which TSR and WotC never managed to escape.

Is it? Are you playing such a character if there is no mechanical difference between you and a Gnome, or a Kenku?

Yes, mechanics are just mechanics. This provides a scaleable solution that allows for greater variety in character concept realization.

That said, I respect your feelings on it, and if you want to have the last word, be my guest.