Traveller?

[aramis erak]

Wish I could get validated there....

PM me the account name, and matching email.

 

[aramis erak]

Right, I think they were pretty knowledgeable on the topic. It is just interesting, and typical of all of Traveller, that there is very little extrapolation of the EFFECTS of technology on society/politics/business/etc. I mean, there is in the sense of the deliberate construct of the Jump Drive and their postulation of an empire based on that, but in terms of extrapolating what advanced computation, communications, intelligence, or anything like what we now call machine learning, there is basically nothing.

Actually, there is - see Book 8: Robots. Which was the final CT official release until 2013 or so, when Marc added SS4: The Lost Rules, collated by Don M, with some help from Rob, myself, Rich R., and a few others.

I mean, it gets pretty obvious too! Like Striker MBTs ARE high performance spacecraft, a grav tank can literally do anything a ship's boat or HG small craft can do, and has pretty analogous weapon systems.

the big difference is that the grav tank fails to have propulsion at 10 diameters. The small craft doesn't.

Yet, the described military doctrines and organization are suitable to something like a Soviet invasion of Western Europe c. 1975. I mean, if your tanks are hypersonic and capable of flying to other planets (or at least orbit) I don't think military doctrine is going to faintly resemble that, and in fact its hard to imagine even thinking in terms of 'ground forces' or 'tanks' at all. lol.

mention is made in both CT core and Striker that helos and tanks merge roles at TL 12 or so.

That is paralleled by Traveller's total lack of attention to concepts like robotics, prosthetics, androids, biological engineering, etc. etc. etc. Eventually each of these got a fairly cursory visit in a supplement or article, but they were clearly not intended to be part of the 'core game'. Now, back in 1977 perhaps this was not so glaringly obvious, but nowadays when we already have capabilities that are just flat out not even thought of in Traveller, or not considered as being important, its hard a bit blatant.

The core game is, per Marc, about men, not machines.

Essentially, it's age of sail transplanted to space.

 

[pemerton]

The second edition of Classic is 1981 and later only. And the second printing of 1st ed was in '78, but I don't know when. CT 2nd ed is not marked as such; IIRC printings 6 and later have the copyright 1981, and are second ed.

If your space combat uses miles, it's 1st ed.

I know its first ed. I had a whole thread years ago where someone tried to insist it was impossible that I would have a first ed, but I do. I don't know who was shipping what to Australia around 1978, but at least one first edition made it here because I still own it.

 

[pemerton]

I always thought that Traveller's higher tech levels (anything much above 9) don't likely really make much sense

We kind-of ignore them - or rather, as referee I might use to underpin a plot device, so "advanced biomedical tech". But I don't try and do anything systematic with them, as that just won't work!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The original Traveller was my second RPG. Yes, I had a character die in CharGen.

I’ve bought almost every edition, but don’t get to play often.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

If a modern Traveller game leaned all the way into what we now understand as AI advancements and their seeming ubiquity in the future I think it would be a terrible experience. Unless you pull a Dune or similar to explain why everything isn’t AI-ified it would become constant automation by everyone—dealing with nothing but drones and similar using your own drones and similar—but also just heinously boring, as everyone in the group essentially puts on their amateur AI dev hat and debates how the field will evolve, based on their own varying and likely faulty understanding of the technology today.

I think “realistic” SF is a nightmare for an RPG. At best it’s the players oohing and aahing over a GM’s overly detailed attempt at worldbuilding through constant exposition. At worst it’s just a running group debate that’s ultimately about which misleading Gizmodo articles people have read and predicting how tech will do everything for your character.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Actually, there is - see Book 8: Robots. Which was the final CT official release until 2013 or so, when Marc added SS4: The Lost Rules, collated by Don M, with some help from Rob, myself, Rich R., and a few others.

I have never yet seen a copy of Book 8: Nobody used it. The problem is, if you even mildly extrapolate the likely effects of these technologies then you end up with a society that is vastly, unrecognizably, different from our own. That clearly poses a problem for RP. Even just thinking about it in the context of Traveller, the milieu was already firmly established long before Book 8, so it can be no more than window dressing really. I mean, you could posit some 'planet of robots' somewhere at the fringe of the Empire and whatever, but in terms of the mainline milieu robots (and related stuff) are basically no more than a curiosity.

the big difference is that the grav tank fails to have propulsion at 10 diameters. The small craft doesn't.

Sure, but you understand what I mean. 10 diameters is a pretty long distance, 120,000 klicks for an Earth-size planet.

mention is made in both CT core and Striker that helos and tanks merge roles at TL 12 or so.

Sure, but a TL12 MBT is a hypersonic space craft! Why would the role played by rotorcraft even exist at TL12? It wouldn't. It wouldn't even exist at TL10 or even 9 probably. I mean, choppers are pretty much on their way out NOW, except in a few specific niche roles.

The core game is, per Marc, about men, not machines.

Oh, I perfectly understand what his reasoning was. He wanted a game that would allow the players to move around in a society that they could understand, with some interesting features added (nobility and such). There's no mystery about it.

Essentially, it's age of sail transplanted to space.

Yes, again, we understand that. It doesn't change my point. I think what I'm saying is felt by most people who play the game and it has, to a degree, limited its appeal.

 

[Celebrim]

Anyone here into any version of Traveller? Sing out if you are.

I own a Mongoose rulebook and I have a huge respect for the concept of a character burner as presented in the Traveller rules historically and a decent amount of respect for some of the game rules. It's definitely a game worth being familiar with, and the Mongoose rules are laid out fantastically.

But I ironically have no interest in the game. I don't like the setting. I am not really into this particular mix of hard science fiction and space opera, finding it neither quite hard enough for good hard sci-fi nor quite fantastic enough for good space opera.

And I much more strongly would want a game of this type to have more "zero to hero" feel where experienced characters are more like action movie heroes than the could die at any moment saps that they are likely to be under the rules. I'd play it, but I doubt I'd love it and I wouldn't run it.

 

[pemerton]

I have never yet seen a copy of Book 8: Nobody used it

I've got a copy. I don't think it's a good book, and I don't use it. In my game I use most of Book 4 (but not the extended PC gen), some of Book 5 (but I prefer Book 2's starship building rules, and have used Book 5 only to make up the specs for a large orbital station), some of Book 6, and some of Book 7. Also most of Supplement 4.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

If a modern Traveller game leaned all the way into what we now understand as AI advancements and their seeming ubiquity in the future I think it would be a terrible experience. Unless you pull a Dune or similar to explain why everything isn’t AI-ified it would become constant automation by everyone—dealing with nothing but drones and similar using your own drones and similar—but also just heinously boring, as everyone in the group essentially puts on their amateur AI dev hat and debates how the field will evolve, based on their own varying and likely faulty understanding of the technology today.

I think “realistic” SF is a nightmare for an RPG. At best it’s the players oohing and aahing over a GM’s overly detailed attempt at worldbuilding through constant exposition. At worst it’s just a running group debate that’s ultimately about which misleading Gizmodo articles people have read and predicting how tech will do everything for your character.

Well, I would say that is YOUR interpretation of what future AI etc. might look like. It is very unclear that this is how it will actually be. So, for example, I could imagine such tech concentrating on assistance. That might be a pretty reasonable and gamable thing. You would acquire augments, which could basically be modeled similarly to the ship's computer in CT. As long as the game milieu has a fairly strong opinion on it, there isn't going to be a bunch of arguing. I mean, other SF games have done it.