Recommend an OSR

[Bill Zebub]

I'm kind of getting an itch to play an OSR game. I've looked at them periodically over the last couple of years but haven't yet recruited some friends to try it. The other day I bought Five Torches Deep, and just now I was looking at the free starter PDF for Dungeon Crawl Classics. There are bits of each I especially like and dislike. And I probably have others lost in the depths of my various hard drives.

Any recommendations for a particular system? Why?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm going a little idiosyncratic on these recommendations-

1. Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert ("Moldvay"). A lot of people will say, "Get the Rules Cyclopedia." Or, "Go BECMI!" Or, "Play one of the many awesome OSR games that have sprung up!" Those are great recommendations! Really!

But sometimes, it pays to go back to one of the foundational texts in the game. Git Moldvay and Git Gud. Ahem. No, I don't mean that. But there's a reason that a lot of people still refer back to Moldvay when it comes to modern game design. Moldvay + Cook is elegant, it's short, and it's ... insanely well supported. It's still has a few idiosyncratic bit (yes, descending AC) but it's a blast of fresh air.

2. Don't go OSR, go FKR. if you aren't comfortable going full DIY FKR, then maybe try rule-lite OSR. Games like The Indie Hack or the 1400 series (1440 Quest, etc.).

3. OSIRIC for AD&D. Some people love OSE. I'll also give a shoutout to Chromatic Dungeons, both because it's an exvellent system and because it was created by a frequent forum contributor ( @Sacrosanct ).

Chromatic Dungeons Review

In this post I review Chromatic Dungeons, an OSR game that pays homage to the roots of D&D while freshening things up. In the OSR community, if we are to continue, we need to try some new thing…

philosopherzeus.wordpress.com

 

[payn]

Forbidden Lands. Some folks might have some qualms with its focus on narrative exploration over combat, and its modern mechanics, but I think it delivers an old school experience well. More importantly, in a non-aggravating rules design way.

DCC is solid, but quirky and definitely rules feel of old school.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I love Dungeon Crawl Classics. I just finished running a campaign that lasted for the better part of a year. I think it really comes to life in play, and some of the things on paper that I don't like aren't even an issue when you get rolling. And if they are, it's very easy to change or ignore them. It's so weird and swingy that it's very hard to upset the apple cart with a single change.

Other than that, Old School Essentials gets a lot of praise, and it's easy to see why. The rules are clean, well-organized, and will feel instantly familiar.

 

[Blue Orange]

Old School Essentials seems to be winning the popularity war, so given network effects that might be the one to start with.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Old School Essentials seems to be winning the popularity war, so given network effects that might be the one to start with.

Yeah I really like (based on reading, anyway) Five Torches Deep but there isn't much content; it's more of a toolkit. I find it really helpful to at least start with content written by people familiar with a system.

 

[Bill Zebub]

One thing I wonder about in reading these different systems is whether some of the throwback mechanics are chosen because they are believed to be better/more fun, or if it's just pure nostalgia. Examples:

1. Thief skills broken out as separate percentiles, by level
2. Saving throws by Rod/Staff/Wand, Breath, etc.
3. Elf/Dwarf/Halfling as class

Those seem to me to be pure nostalgia, or rejection of new ideas for the sake of rejecting new ideas. What benefit do they offer?

I could see how #'s 1 and 2 would reduce dependency on ability scores, which is probably a good idea when you're rolling strict 3d6x6, but the 1970's designs seem unnecessarily complex.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Old School Essentials seems to be winning the popularity war, so given network effects that might be the one to start with.

I disagree for two reasons.

The first is the network effect only really matters if you're by yourself looking for a game. If you have an established group, you don't care about the network effects. Just convince the people at the table.

The second is that most OSR games are not the same, but similar enough. If you've played AD&D and BECMI, you can play DCC and OSE and OSIRIC and Labyrinth Lord and any of a number of games that are noted for their love of alliterative titles.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

One thing I wonder about in reading these different systems is whether some of the throwback mechanics are chosen because they are believed to be better/more fun, or if it's just pure nostalgia. Examples:

1. Thief skills broken out as separate percentiles, by level
2. Saving throws by Rod/Staff/Wand, Breath, etc.
3. Elf/Dwarf/Halfling as class

Those seem to me to be pure nostalgia, or rejection of new ideas for the sake of rejecting new ideas. What benefit do they offer?

I could see how #'s 1 and 2 would reduce dependency on ability scores, which is probably a good idea when you're rolling strict 3d6x6, but the 1970's designs seem unnecessarily complex.

In order of importance:

1. Saving throws. I'd actually say that breaking them out separately is massively important to stay true to that feel. In fact, that's one of the things I love about the older games and currently miss in 5e- all of your saving throws improve as you level up. This is also incredibly important because in most old school games, your ability scores do not meaningfully improve. There is no ASI treadmill.

2. Thief skills broken out as a percentage. See saving throws. Weirdly, this is something that a lot of new rules do well and try to fix- because AD&D (1e) and BECMI trashed the thief class so thoroughly. Again, you get better as go up in level, and you don't have to worry about the ability score staying the same.

3. Race-as-class. That's a "Basic" thing. Purely preference- some dig the simplicity, some don't.

 

[Bill Zebub]

In order of importance:

1. Saving throws. I'd actually say that breaking them out separately is massively important to stay true to that feel. In fact, that's one of the things I love about the older games and currently miss in 5e- all of your saving throws improve as you level up. This is also incredibly important because in most old school games, your ability scores do not meaningfully improve. There is no ASI treadmill.

2. Thief skills broken out as a percentage. See saving throws. Weirdly, this is something that a lot of new rules do well and try to fix- because AD&D (1e) and BECMI trashed the thief class so thoroughly. Again, you get better as go up in level, and you don't have to worry about the ability score staying the same.

3. Race-as-class. That's a "Basic" thing. Purely preference- some dig the simplicity, some don't.

I get the argument about scaling skills, but exactly like 5e and exactly like 1974 aren’t the only two options. Some of the OSR games use something in the middle, but some seem to have mimeographed (get it?) the original books.