D&D (2024) What new jargon do you want to replace "Race"?

What new jargon do you want to replace "Race"?

  • Species

    Votes: 60 33.5%
  • Type

    Votes: 10 5.6%
  • Form

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Lifeform

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Biology

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Taxonomy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Taxon

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Genus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Geneology

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Family

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Parentage

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Ancestry

    Votes: 100 55.9%
  • Bloodline

    Votes: 13 7.3%
  • Line

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Lineage

    Votes: 49 27.4%
  • Pedigree

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Folk

    Votes: 34 19.0%
  • Kindred

    Votes: 18 10.1%
  • Kind

    Votes: 16 8.9%
  • Kin

    Votes: 36 20.1%
  • Kinfolk

    Votes: 9 5.0%
  • Filiation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Extraction

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Descent

    Votes: 5 2.8%
  • Origin

    Votes: 36 20.1%
  • Heredity

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Heritage

    Votes: 48 26.8%
  • People

    Votes: 11 6.1%
  • Nature

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Birth

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Dwarves will comprise various cultures. Some of these cultures might prominently feature mining, even value and celebrate mines, perhaps even transmit religious traditions using mines as analogies to attempt descriptions of abstract spiritual concepts.

Dwarves can have a Background relating to a particular culture who "prominently" (either frequently or prestigiously) employs a specific method of mining.

The D&D gaming rules MUST avoid confusing this cultural Background trait with a biologically inborn Species trait that is true for EVERY Dwarf.

Tremorsense + Darkvision -> advantage when mining all else being equal
Powerful Build -> advantage when being a furniture mover all else being equal
Wings -> advantage when doing aerial reconnaissance all else being equal
Shapeshifting -> advantage when doing disguise things all else being equal
etc...

Of course not all else will be equal otherwise for individuals, having an something that gives an advantage a career doesn't mean one will want to do that, not having something that gives someone an advantage at something won't mean someone won't want to do it.
 

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I was talking about the claim made by @MarkB that "Race as used in D&D is about biological identity" which I took to mean only about biological identity. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, @MarkB.) That claim is revisionist (as in revsisionist history) because the use of race as a game element in D&D has included things other than biology in every edition of the game of which I can think. Another way of saying this is that it's a false claim.

It feels like the point folks are trying to make is that the playtest material for One, the more recent products that have redone races, and the way WotC has been phrasing things is that it looks like Race is heading towards being predominantly about biological things and not cultural things - and may end up pretty much only being about them. What was done in past editions doesn't seem relevant to where One is going in this regard.

What was done in the past is certainly relevant to judging statements about what was done in the past though!
 

The most significant genetic feature of the human species is the brain evolving the capacity of speech and the ability to learn and teach new things.

This human reliance on speech, whence clothing and jewelry and their symbolic uniforms to artificially create new self-identities, is so radical, many humans cease to even self-identify with other species of animals. Even bonobo and chimpanzee who are genetically similar to us can seem unrelated.

Certainly our intelligence sets us apart, and so does speech (though it seems we are learning more and more that other animals are capable of pretty complex communication). Still I can imagine a world where bonobos, chimpanzees or gorillas evolve alongside humans into equally intelligent beings capable of speech like humans, but whose physiology gives them different cultural tendencies. I would imagine if a chimpanzee retained its strength (which is significantly greater than a person's), that would shape their culture. And I can imagine a world where neanderthals remain, and their culture might be substantially different from human culture. We know Neanderthals made music for example. I would be curious if their hearing senses were similar or different from our own, and if there is a difference, how different their musical tendencies might be. I'm not informed enough about other primates to continue this thought experiment without further research, but you get my point.

And I think that is another thing that is significant: these are thought experiments. They are based on things that don't exist. We live in a world where humans are the only advanced and intelligent species (there are other intelligent species but you get my point I think). So we have to imagine what other species of hominids might be like, or other beings who might vaguely resemble humans but have different physical features, builds, life spans, etc. You and I might answer that thought experiment differently, and it seems we do. But I also think there is room for legitimately different answers here.

Speech is also why culture matters more than instinct. Different human groups learn and teach different ways of adapting, surviving, and flourishing. These artificial differences are of more consequence than any trivial genetic difference. Humans evolve by means of evolving cultures far more rapidly and dramatically than by means of mutating genetics.

I agree with you our speech is very important, and I agree we have a variety of cultures, a variety of ways of adapting. But I think you could also flip that and say our intelligence, our ability to adapt, is one of the things that shape human culture (again we are doing a thought exeperiment because we don't have other cultures to compare to). But I would push back against the role of instinct, the role of our biology. I think we like to think of ourselves as not part of the natural world, but we are. And we have drives that shape us, and affect our culture. We might not have a predators reflexes, but we are not purely cultural beings. Obviously things vary, and culture can stretch what is possible, but there are basic human relationships (like immediate family) that are hard for culture to uproot. We also need things like human interaction, we need to laugh, we have, I would say, a pretty clear inbuilt instinct to make music and perform rituals. Those can be expressed in different ways in specific cultures, but there is an underlying humanity there that I think is part of our nature.
 

The D&D gaming rules MUST avoid confusing this cultural Background trait with a biologically inborn Species trait that is true for EVERY Dwarf.

I don't know that it must. Again, I have no issue with a general statement like "because of their dark vision and innate ability to sense changes in elevation, as well as their lower center of gravity and enhanced constitution, drwarves are well suited to living underground, and many dwarven cultures gravitate towards underground living and mining.
 

Some of the points you make are careful and I share a similar attitude.

However this quote is wrongminded:
Still I can imagine a world where bonobos, chimpanzees or gorillas evolve alongside humans into equally intelligent beings capable of speech like humans, but whose physiology gives them different cultural tendencies.
This quoted concept, that other races are like humans but not quite as human as humans are: is precisely historical Darwinian-misconstruing ... full-on ... RACISM!



In any case, when the gaming rules CLEANLY distinguish between NONHUMAN biologies and HUMAN cultures, it seems to thread the needle to avoid this racism of the previous centuries.

How we characterize these fantasy cultures remains a challenge, but at least, they will be, by definition, human cultures that reallife humans can comprehend and participate in.
 
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I think it is very clear that some of the abilities are learned through their culture and others are innate. Here are some quotes out of the PHB:
"As a forest gnome, you have a natural knack for illusion and inherent quickness and stealth."
"As a rock gnome, you have a natural inventiveness and hardiness..."
"Your half-orc character has certain traits deriving from your orc ancestry."
"As a stout halfling, you're hardier than average and have some resistance to poison. Some say that stouts have dwarven blood."
"Your elf character has a variety of natural abilities, the results of thousands of years of elven refinement."
"Your dwarf character has an assortment of inborn abilities, the part and parcel of dwarven nature."

So when you have clarifiers like these prior to listing a species traits, which include resiliencies and vision and magic use, then many people can, and should, assume that much of these are innate. If Wizards wants to change all that, that's fine. But it is incorrect to call the other people revisionists when these things are stated as such.

Edit: I get that you are implying that it is both too.
I think it's notable that out of all those quotes, only the one about dwarven blood (said in an unreliable narrator voice) says anything about biology.
 

Dwarves will comprise various cultures. Some of these cultures might prominently feature mining, even value and celebrate mines, perhaps even transmit religious traditions using mines as analogies to attempt descriptions of abstract spiritual concepts.
again I think we are talking about simplification here. The whole monocultural elves and dwarves thing, is usually a matter of simplification in the PHB, but something that tends to show more complexity and variety in actual settings. I don't think making general cultural statements about dwarves, elves, humans, and halflings is an issue. It is a simplification and one can argue more variety would be more realistic, but ultimately this is also a game, and a particularly simple one that abstracts a lot. But like I said there are also lots of games that do more realistic complexity and variety with culture better than D&D.

And yes you can have a variety of drwarven cultures but saying something like 'dwarves tend to live below ground and often mine' isn't that different or any worse than saying 'humans tend to live above ground and often farm or raise herds of animals'. That is just a general statement, it doesn't preclude a city like Derinkuyu from existing among humans for example, nor does it preclude dwarves from having a city like Rome.
 

Some of the points you make are careful and I share a similar attitude.

However this quote is wrongminded:

This quoted concept, that other races are like humans but not quite as human as humans are: is precisely historical Darwinian-style ... full-on ... RACISM!

No, I have to push back strongly on this. First I wasn't talking about human races. So nothing I said had anything to do with existing human races or ethnicities (which I have said don't have any physical differences nor any kind of different inherent cultural differences). I was imagining if bonobos evolved into a species of intelligent, tool using, speaking and civilized beings, how their may be noticeable cultural differences from humans. That is maybe drawing on ideas of natural selection, evolution, but it isn't a racist idea. It is entirely conceivable that a different species could evolve alongside humans, be humanlike to a degree but have different cultural tendencies.
 

In any case, when the gaming rules CLEANLY distinguish between NONHUMAN biologies and HUMAN cultures, it seems to thread the needle to avoid this racism of the previous centuries.

How we characterize these fantasy cultures remains a challenge, but at least, they will be, by definition, human cultures that reallife humans can comprehend and participate in.

But the issue is we are talking about races/species that don't exist in the real world and aren't real human races or ethnicities. These are fictional beings. And I think reducing demihumans to just being varieties of real world human culture makes them a lot more boring personally. One of the reasons I enjoy fantasy is because it has things like dwarves and elves who aren't just humans in funny hats.
 

Some of the points you make are careful and I share a similar attitude.

However this quote is wrongminded:

This quoted concept, that other races are like humans but not quite as human as humans are: is precisely historical Darwinian-misconstruing ... full-on ... RACISM!

"If gorillas or chimpanzees kept most of their other general traits like larger/smaller size, differences in strengths and agility, brachiation, lifespan, etc... but had near human intelligence, they would develop the same kind of cultures as each other or that humans would" seems strange to me.

(Which doesn't mean one shouldn't be careful about which road one goes down and how it's done. Or that a human couldn't be raised by intelligent apes or vice-versa).
 

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