D&D General The DM Shortage

[MNblockhead]

I will tell you one thing. The desire to resurrect Edition Warring kills a lot of my enthusiasm for the hobby, possibly contributing to the DM shortage through my absence and others who are similarly repulsed by such bickering over what is meant to be a fun past time.

How much is that a thing outside of internet discussion boards?

The only real edition change I lived through was 1e to 2e and at that time I had already moved on from DnD to Warhammer Fantasy, so I while I paged through the new books at Waldenbooks in the mall, shrugged and said "I'm good." That was about the height of my edition warring.

In my current 5e game I have some players who'll complain about how much 5e nerfs magic users and spells, which underscores my belief that 3/3.5/Pathfinder are not the system for me (to DM, would happily play).

4e seems to have been the most divisive edition. I wasn't gaming at the time, but was the impact on local gaming groups any different than any other time in terms of preferred systems, D&D or not? My enthusiasm for the hobby is only affected by whether I can find a group of people I enjoy playing with. The rare instances where I find myself getting annoyed or upset participating in internet discussions, I just tap out of the thread or take a break from discussion boards in general. Personally, I find I need to do this in discussions about TV shows and movies more so than game discussions. Apparently, I'm an undiscriminating simpleton in my entertainment choices.

At least with gaming discussions, when folks yuck on my yum, I may learn some new yummy mechanics or systems, even if I'm fine with the ones I'm already enjoying.

 

[Minigiant]

The first is trickier. All RPGing requires someone to create the fiction - it won't create itself. There are well-known techniques, in RPGing, for distributing the responsibility for doing so around the table. And I'm not talking here about "player narrative authority" (operationalised mechanically via fate points ect), which is an overrated thing in ENworld discussions. I'm talking much more basic stuff like deciding what play is about, what the core tropes are, who we the PCs are looking for having arrived in this village, etc.

The core premise of most contemporary D&D play seems to be that the GM is overwhelmingly in charge of this: creating it, keeping track of it, making sure that it remains interesting to the players, making sure that it regularly and in a spotlight-sharing way foregrounds PCs (both in respect of their mechanical competencies and their backstories), etc.a

That's a lot of work, even if I'm using someone else's publication to get my creature and NPC stats, and my maps.

But that's kinda my point. You can usually buy monster stats and alternative martial/skill/magic systems after a year after reason. It's usually a long wait to get charts that can generate the NPC personalities, relationships, and quest objectives for a town for a nearby dungeon or a full video on spotlight sharing. Not to mention monster stats designed specifically for moderately optimized PCs.

There's usually little official and official support for creating fiction based on genre. And support for mechanical genre or trope shifting usually takes many years before you see anything, if ever officially.

 

[pemerton]

But that's kinda my point. You can usually buy monster stats and alternative martial/skill/magic systems after a year after reason. It's usually a long wait to get charts that can generate the NPC personalities, relationships, and quest objectives for a town for a nearby dungeon or a full video on spotlight sharing. Not to mention monster stats designed specifically for moderately optimized PCs.

There's usually little official and official support for creating fiction based on genre. And support for mechanical genre or trope shifting usually takes many years before you see anything, if ever officially.

I wasn't thinking of it in the terms you've suggested here. (Which is not to say that they're bad terms.)

I'm just thinking about the sheer work involved in doing all the stuff I described, even with support.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

THEN if you stay and become a DM, you realize that it's been written for old school gritty low fantasy sword and sorcery.

Really, no. That isn't comparable to changing the game from adventure/skirmish to management sim. The distinction between different sub-genres of fantasy is something only nerds war over, and comes from the DM and players, not the rules.

 

[Minigiant]

Really, no. That isn't comparable to changing the game from adventure/skirmish to management sim. The distinction between different sub-genres of fantasy is something only nerds war over, and comes from the DM and players, not the rules.

My point is changing subgenres requires the DM creating or changing rules. Which is more work because there usually isn't any high quality official or 3PP rules to copy for many years after an edition is released.

It's just more and more work for the DM that scares them off or burns them out.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

My point is changing subgenres requires the DM creating or changing rules.

And my point is, it doesn't. D&D rules work equally well for heroic fantasy and sword and sorcery. It's up to the DM and the players to decide what type of story they are in.

5e rules don't do gritty very well, but then the cover art doesn't suggest it does.

 

[Oofta]

And my point is, it doesn't. D&D rules work equally well for heroic fantasy and sword and sorcery. It's up to the DM and the players to decide what type of story they are in.

5e rules don't do gritty very well, but then the cover art doesn't suggest it does.

I agree. We have Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Strixhaven, Spelljammer, Eberron, Theros and now Dragonlance. The feel of the game can be changed pretty significantly by just using the optional rules in the DMG. If that's not enough it's easier to put in a few house rules and adjustments that are easier to implement than the last couple of editions in my experience.

That's before you look at 3PP like Everyday Heroes for modern setting, Esper Genesis for space fantasy, Weird West and many, many others. Of course 3PP don't count because they might be bad and it's much better to complain about how bad official products are.

No game can cover every genre equally well of course (unless it's more of a "how to make your own game system"), but D&D 5E can and does cover quite a few.

 

[Minigiant]

And my point is, it doesn't. D&D rules work equally well for heroic fantasy and sword and sorcery. It's up to the DM and the players to decide what type of story they are in.

5e rules don't do gritty very well, but then the cover art doesn't suggest it does.

"Equally" is a term I wouldn't use. The 5e PHB is written for nongritty heroic fantasy whereas the DMG/MM seems designed for gritty sword and sorcery. All while hinting to other styles like epic fantasy,mythic fantasy, swashbuckling, and wuxia.

Then we as a community say its up to the DM and players to create the game they want. And then the players all turn to the DM and wait.

5e is one of the better editions as like you said the cover art and advertising matches the player side gameplay and it offers 2 styles of fantasy (just not on both sides of the DM screen) early on.

But this thread is on the DM shortage that is caused by the large workload placed upon DMs. My theory is this is due to the slow crawl of updated support for them.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And then the players all turn to the DM and wait.

And the DM turns to the players: "Obvsly Val the wizard offers offers you ten thousand gold to bring her a certain mummified hand and eye."

If the players agree, the genre is Sword and Sorcery. If they refuse it's heroic fantasy.

 

[Vaalingrade]

In the 'why do you DM' thread, I talked about seeing stuff in the DMG and thinking 'I want to make this happen for my friends'.

But from an outsider perspective, I wonder if people look at all the discourse about DM authority and punishing players and 'training' them to do things they don't like, and think 'I don't want to do this to my friends'.