D&D (2024) Would a OneDND closed/restricted license be good, actually?

Pretty sure they would have carried it if there had been demand, anything else is irrational

German editions were cut. The books were just not good. Regarding monetization: most people i know just used the online character builder. So no. The demand probably dropped of hard.

With 5e, I (and probably store owners) can say to someone: buy those books, they are still useful 8 years into the edition. With 4e, I told everyone not to buy those books immediately. I did not buy them.
I guess, there were many people who felt the same, even if they liked 4e back then.
 

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Ok. Never implied that.
Just said that regarding your estimation of what is a good or a bad decision by wotc.
I personall think it is a good idea for wotc to not do it as you like, because it would smaller their customer base.

That does not mean that I don't want your preferences to be supported in some way. I see nothing in the OGL 1.1 that prevents that.
The new OGL, provided that it provides  some actual incentive for 3PP to adopt it, will restrict content released under it. If 3PP whose content I currently enjoy sign onto it, they will restrict their content to what WotC will allow for the license, for whatever benefit WotC sees fit to provide and eventually tell us about. For example, I don't like the direction WotC's new edition is going toward. People writing under 1.1 will likely fall under that direction, thus producing content that I might (probably will) like less.

I don't want that to happen, and the possibility that it doing so might make WotC even more successful and influential in the industry is a point against it to me, not in favor of it.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Of course it's true. And we know exactly how true it is EN World-wise by all the posters here who get all up in arms and argue and complain about the work WotC produces. Everything they make in books or in Unearthed Arcana playtest documents have people arrive here on the boards to go over all them with fine-toothed combs and complain about what they've made. Even people who admit they don't actually like or still play WotC-based 5E... still can't help but come here to rant and rave about what WotC does.

THAT tells us all we need to know about just how ubiquitous D&D 5E is. The very definition of "I wish I knew how to quit you." And why this hope of people that "the world of TTRPGs expands out beyond Wizards of the Coast" is I think a rather disingenuous complaint. All these people who want 3PPs or other RPGs to rise up out of the shadow that 5E is casting can't help themselves make the shadow even bigger by still keeping themselves handcuffed to 5E. They still keep involved in its development. They still want WotC to make D&D 5E rules changes in the style of games they want to play.

(General) you complain about WotC and their massive 5E game and how it crowds everybody else out... and yet rather than break ties with this game you feel is an anchor around the hobby... (general) you still care so much about how the game continues and what kinds of books and rules for it get released that you continually stayed involved and talk about it, thus perpetuating its influence. (General) you are as much responsible for WotC's 5E shadow as anyone.

You want me to believe you TRULY care about the larger TTRPG eco-system and want to bring other games and companies out from underneath the shadow of WotC? Break off from 5E once and for all. Stop giving them the press. Because every time you come here onto EN World to talk about it you are showing us all that you actually want to see WotC maintain its position.
90% (made-up number) of talk on this forum concerns WotC D&D, or assumes that it does. Are you asking people to basically leave ENWorld? I can't speak for others, but I don't play constantly, so a lot of my engagement with the hobby I love comes from here. Not weighing in on WotC D&D is an ENORMOUS restriction on discourse.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
German editions were cut. The books were just not good. Regarding monetization: most people i know just used the online character builder. So no. The demand probably dropped of hard.

With 5e, I (and probably store owners) can say to someone: buy those books, they are still useful 8 years into the edition. With 4e, I told everyone not to buy those books immediately. I did not buy them.
I guess, there were many people who felt the same, even if they liked 4e back then.
The invisible corebook known as "The Complete Errata Handbook" was definitely a problem for me when I played 4e.
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
No one says they don't. That doesn't give me any reason to think that anyone in this thread has a better grasp than WotC does of its commercial interests.
WotC has fumbled the ball more than once with D&D, though. I don't have a ton of confidence in their ability to make decisions. Further, Hasbro has a lot of influence, which means executives without a lot of experience with RPGs will have hands in the pot.
 

Catolias

Explorer
A rising tide lifts all boats. That's not just a saying. ICv2 reports on sales and they've said as D&D does better, the games below D&D also do better.
True, but the saying assumes that everything else is equal or remains the same. Changing the OGL rules, however, adds another dimension. If the D&D boat is the only one accessed by a marina and they control how and who gets access to it, then have an advantage over the disadvantaged boats on a swing mooring accessed by a row boat.
 


pemerton

Legend
I'm not responsible for WotC's profits, and I don't care if they make even more money. What I want is to have WotC's overbearing influence on gaming be less overbearing. This whole thing seems hell-bent on doing the opposite.
Pretty sure they would have carried it if there had been demand, anything else is irrational
I don't think the sentiments underlying these two posts can both be true: that is, I don't see how it can be true both that there is demand for RPGs that is independent of what WotC decides to do (which can result, for instance, in WotC making poor business decisions by misjudging what RPG consumers want), and that WotC exercises overbearing influence on RPGing.

For what it's worth, to me there seems to be a fairly consistent demand from the "mainstream" RPGing population. It falls into the genre/mode of RPGing often called neo-trad. (Here's a description.) The core features of neo-trad RPGing, as I understand it, are (i) players coming up with vibrant conceptions of their PCs, expressed through a mixture of backstory, performance and PC build; (ii) the GM presenting a vibrant fictional world that those PCs can inhabit; (iii) the actual process of play involves the GM heavily curating the fiction - which includes introduction of both their own and the players' backstory, plus framing, plus consequences - in such a way that the players' conceptions of their vibrant PCs can easily and clearly emerge.

I would expect WotC, in its ongoing development of 5e D&D, to try to further strengthen the support for neo-trad RPGing while also maintaining the technical aspects of the game - which manifest primarily in PC and monster build and in the combat rules (and include the resource management aspects of the game) - which are perhaps less important to neo-trad play but are core elements of the D&D tradition and clearly remain important to many D&D players.

I would expect this to be combined with "monetisation" options, both connected to play and selling D&D-branded stuff more generally.

WotC's approach to licensing will (presumably) be based around both concerns. Keeping Critical Role in the tent seems pretty crucial. Preventing some competitor from establishing a break-out digital platform disconnected from WotC seems pretty important to. (This is a point that I've seen @Hussar mention.)

Even people who admit they don't actually like or still play WotC-based 5E... still can't help but come here to rant and rave about what WotC does.

<snip>

You want me to believe you TRULY care about the larger TTRPG eco-system and want to bring other games and companies out from underneath the shadow of WotC? Break off from 5E once and for all. Stop giving them the press. Because every time you come here onto EN World to talk about it you are showing us all that you actually want to see WotC maintain its position.
It seems to me that many of those posters really want WotC to turn the clock back, from its support for neo-trad to something closer to late 80s or early 90s AD&D (which were pretty similar in style despite the updated rulebooks part way through that period).

There's an apparent belief that if WotC changed its approach, the market would follow and hence there would be heaps of players available for those AD&D-style trad D&D games.

My own view is that that belief is false, and that WotC is following the market more than shaping its preferences. The shaping of the preferences is coming from other and more diffuse places - Critical Role, the way protagonist-based action films have developed over the past 40-ish years (Arnie's films being early examples, and MCU showing how it can be done in an ensemble fashion), the sort of RPGing that 3E and then PF encouraged, etc.

The dogs bark and the caravan moves on.
 
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