New OGL - what would be acceptable? (+)

[Composer99]

There are no lost profits. WotC wasn't going to make those adventures, settings and splatbooks anyway.

Not to mention the existence of those products as 5e-compatible would cause at least some of their customers to buy 5e core books who wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[Minigiant]

You must be young

Youtube was around for years before everyone on it started selling out like they do today. We don't need the professional Youtubers either.

There was a period around the turn of the century where we had basically everything we do today in terms of content, but it was all free, done by people who were in it for the sake of art and community. I'd actually be pretty happy to be rid of the people who ruined those communities by turning them into a business.

Depends if late 30s is young.

The point is that the explosion of 5e's profits is due to the mainstream visibility and ease of learning of the edition. WOTC has the means to jank up the visibility. Which would screw up the 3pps and creators. The main people affected by OGL 1.1.

If you want to go back to a D&D economy of 1985 or 1995? Fine. But I can tell you how much money I spent on TTRPG products in 1985 and 1995.

 

[Reynard]

Not to mention the existence of those products as 5e-compatible would cause at least some of their customers to buy 5e core books who wouldn't have otherwise.

That was, in fact, the OGL's primary purpose besides ensuring D&D's survival.

 

[Minigiant]

Not to mention the existence of those products as 5e-compatible would cause at least some of their customers to buy 5e core books who wouldn't have otherwise.

I question how many people brought 5e 3pp books before the 5e core books.

 

[Bohandas]

Survived yes.

But all these 3pps, youtube creators, tikitok creators, D&D sites, and others would disappear.

The $$$ faucet would be turned down and the revenue stream would go away. People would have to get nonD&D jobs. Big publishers would have to downsize. You wouldn't get much new.

You're not going to get the 2020s D&D market without a huge mainstream injection. We will all lose.

We already have 5 perfectly playable games, we don't need anything new.

 

[Minigiant]

We already have 5 perfectly playable games, we don't need anything new.

So what the complaint?

You either want the new or you don't. That's Step 1 in the negotiations.

 

[Scars Unseen]

If you want to go back to a D&D economy of 1985 or 1995? Fine. But I can tell you how much money I spent on TTRPG products in 1985 and 1995.

That's some major hyperbole you go going on there, not to say more than a little /r/hailcorporate. The OGL cat is out of the bag, and it massively grew the industry. As long as the OGL stands, we're not going back to the days where the industry hangs by D&D's thread. At worst, we'd go back to the 4E days where official D&D is outshined by someone who came in to pick up the slack when WotC dropped the ball hard trying to control the market. Like they're apparently trying to do now.

 

[Minigiant]

That's some major hyperbole you go going on there, not to say more than a little /r/hailcorporate. The OGL cat is out of the bag, and it massively grew the industry. As long as the OGL stands, we're not going back to the days where the industry hangs by D&D's thread. At worst, we'd go back to the 4E days where official D&D is outshined by someone who came in to pick up the slack when WotC dropped the ball hard trying to control the market. Like they're apparently trying to do now.

If the 1.1 is true, we are not ging back to 4e. Because WOC will just sue the next Paizo/PF. Then everything halts until the case finishes or is settled.

WOTC is much bigger than the rest and the OGL 1.1 if true means they are in "make a deal, quit, or we sue you" mode. And D&D is still a little too niche for the mainstream to care or even see it.

I'm not hailing it. I'm afraid.

 

[Greg K]

I question how many people brought 5e 3pp books before the 5e core books.

:raises hand (edit: did it with 3e too). I still have not bought the core books despite having bought several 3pp. Was, recently, considering it, but not at the moment given what is going on.

 

[Steel_Wind]

This is a (+) thread. If you aren't interested in talking about what we'd find acceptable in a new license, please find another discussion.

3) WotC can reserve rights to commercial videogames, software, movies, TV, novels and such. That's fair.
3a) Non-commercial software and media are allowed. Actual play programs are explicitly differentiated from other reserved media, and explicitly allowed.

The issue concerning software is a matter where I have some difficulty with.

If the software is a computer or video game meant to be played without moderation? I have no difficulty with that. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, NW Online -- Solasta, even. I am okay with that. Agreed.

But when it comes to VTT software, or even character creation software, or character illustration software, or a variety of adjacent utilities -- I am not okay with that. No, whether it is commercial software should not be the test.

I don't like the idea of exclusivity concerning these edge cases; this gives us poorer digital products and chokes off technological innovation. In many respects, the only thing being protected are game mechanics which in the vast majority of cases are not capable of copyright protection. You cannot copyright an idea - that is the function of patents - and that ship has sailed.

Anyways -- to go too far with this is not in any gamer's interest. I would argue that it is not even in WotC's long-term interest, for that matter.

As for TV/Movies/Radio I am not okay with any aspect of that, to be honest. That isn't the subject matter of copyright, it is the role of trade-mark law. WotC has full control over its marks and those should not be (and are not) covered by any OGL. It can enforce its marks to the fullest extent of the law; that far and no further.