So, who can 'authorize' and 'de-authorize' the OGL?

[Zardnaar]

While a fun game ultimately I think if it can be done it's WotC.

That's also IF idk if they can.

New license from Paozo or whoever can do whatever but there's a lot of what can you actually use from from older material and if you can win in court.

Hypothetically PF 2 and level up are not safe

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

No, the whole point is to avoid attorneys.

Interesting.

I can shake them. I have my ways and I can live on the barter system. Garnish that WotC!

Look, all I'm going to say is this. I've known a lot of people that think that they are judgment proof. But they don't really understand what that means.

Anyway don't do anything foolish. Although avoiding attorneys is always sound advice!

 

[Tazawa]

Here's my educated guess at what Wizards would say (Note: I agree with Morrus on this, and disagree with this take, but here it is anyway)

The OGL itself it copyrighted by Wizards. They also have the primary entry in section 15 in all authorized usages, which chains down to everyone else's usage. They never intended the OGL to be used for anything other than the specific works it comes with, and anyone reusing it to license other games is doing so without their authorization.

Look at the FAQ directly below the first appearance of the license. Open Game License v0.1 Simplified

They definitely did intend for the license to be used for non-WotC content. It was meant to be used by anyone

"You can use this license to provide a strong copyleft to any material, including an entirely new project."

Their authorization is therefore for the base license with it's single S15 entry. While they cannot specifically de-authorize OGL 1.0 for anyone else's content, they can do so for their own, and as everyone's legitimate use of the OGL includes and depends upon their content (bearing in mind they will say any use that does not include their content is illigitimate), it therefore applies to all subsequent sublicenses of that content.


While I actually agree with some of this (the thinking on how the authorization carries down the chain, and how the only versions they've ever authorized include the S15 reference for their own SRDs) - but their argument hinges on whether they can de-authorize once authorized. Such a power is neither directly enumerated nor implied within the license text, nor is the mechanism to do so (because simply shoving it on a page on the internet that licencees are under no obligation to visit, unlike in 1.1, does not feel like it would be a legally recognized mechanism) and would likely be defined if it were intended at time of writing (and we have it on record that it was not)

The license was issued well before they published their SRD. The original license does not include any reference to open game content released under the license. In fact, WotC never released any content under OGL 1.0. It is still a valid license.

I agree with you that the power to de-authorize a version is not contained in the license.

 

[Matt Thomason]

Look at the FAQ directly below the first appearance of the license. Open Game License v0.1 Simplified

They definitely did intend for the license to be used for non-WotC content. It was meant to be used by anyone

"You can use this license to provide a strong copyleft to any material, including an entirely new project."



The license was issued well before they published their SRD. The original license does not include any reference to open game content released under the license. In fact, WotC never released any content under OGL 1.0. It is still a valid license.

I agree with you that the power to de-authorize a version is not contained in the license.

Thanks, I was actually looking for the original 1.0 (not 1.0a) anyway for completely different reason, so you've saved me a job
That pretty much settles it then. 1.0 allows for use of future versions (at the licensees option), therefore allowing the use of 1.0a by other games.

 

[Tazawa]

Thanks, I was actually looking for the original 1.0 (not 1.0a) anyway for completely different reason, so you've saved me a job
That pretty much settles it then. 1.0 allows for use of future versions (at the licensees option), therefore allowing the use of 1.0a by other games.

To save you a little more time:

• The difference between OGL 1.0 and OGL 1.0a is that "Trademark" has been changed to "Trademark or Registered Trademark" in 7. Use of Product Identity.
• When Wizards is saying that 1.0(a) "is no longer an authorized license agreement", they are using 1.0(a) to refer to both 1.0 and 1.0a. The use of parentheses shows that the a is optional. Don't think that 1.0 has any different status than 1.0a. In my opinion, they are equally valid.

 

[FrogReaver]

Look, all I'm going to say is this. I've known a lot of people that think that they are judgment proof. But they don't really understand what that means.

Anyway don't do anything foolish. Although avoiding attorneys is always sound advice!

You need a good attorney. The bad ones will just give unsound advice. The problem is the good ones and the bad ones all look the same

 

[MarkB]

So, one would presume that a licence can either be authorised or unauthorised, right? It's a binary state.

Is it possible for the same licence to be authorised for some users, but unauthorised for others?

Because WotC's currently-stated position is that "Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected." So, the licence remains authorised for that content. Can they maintain that the licence is both authorised and unauthorised at the same time?

 

[mamba]

So, one would presume that a licence can either be authorised or unauthorised, right? It's a binary state.

Is it possible for the same licence to be authorised for some users, but unauthorised for others?

no, the license is either authorized or not, for all users

Because WotC's currently-stated position is that "Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected." So, the licence remains authorised for that content. Can they maintain that the licence is both authorised and unauthorised at the same time?

the license was authorized when the material was being released, it is still protected by it (due to the license being perpetual) after the license is no longer authorized.

Because the license is no longer authorized, no new material can be released under it - at least according to WotC, my understanding is 1) WotC can authorize a (new) license, 2) no one can de-authorize an authorized license

 

[Matt Thomason]

So, one would presume that a licence can either be authorised or unauthorised, right? It's a binary state.

Is it possible for the same licence to be authorised for some users, but unauthorised for others?

Because WotC's currently-stated position is that "Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected." So, the licence remains authorised for that content. Can they maintain that the licence is both authorised and unauthorised at the same time?

Given that "authorized" doesn't appear to have any legal meaning other than what is within the license itself (it does get a mention in the early OGL FAQs, but they may or may not have any legal weight), the only answer is "maybe" - it all comes down to what a Judge decides they actually have the power to do under that license.

Right now, pretty much the entire hypothetical case over the OGL hinges on what "authorized" means, whether "deauthorized" is even possible, and what the mechanisms would be for doing so. As that's not defined either within the law or within the OGL itself, we would have to have a test case to find out.
We don't even know ourselves for sure what WotC believe "authorized" means. We know they believe they can take an authorized license and make it "no longer authorized", but not what mechanism they intend to do this by, or whether they believe they have a way to do this to individuals rather than globally. It's unlikely we will ever know unless they stand up in court and tell a Judge what they believe they can do.

Many of us believe the lack of a defined "de-authorization" mechanism means they simply cant do it, other than by having you agree to it being de-authorized, such as by accepting a new license from them in which you agree it is.

 

[FrogReaver]

Many of us believe the lack of a defined "de-authorization" mechanism means they simply cant do it, other than by having you agree to it being de-authorized, such as by accepting a new license from them in which you agree it is.

I'd just add that's part of the argument against it, not the whole argument against it.