Hello, I am lawyer with a PSA: almost everyone is wrong about the OGL and SRD. Clearing up confusion.

[Maxperson]

So rolling more than a 2 on a d20 are not pretty good chances? Not everything that is unclear is 50/50

It's not even close to a 3+ on a d20 for 3PP to prevail.

As I said, this whole line of reasoning is missing the point we started on. Agree to disagree, but it changes nothing about the initial point

LOL I can't even remember the initial point now.

 

[Staffan]

Seriously man, sometime get on DTRPG and select "core books" and don't screen for anything else. There are over 15000 hits. And that doesn't even count the people who don't go through DTRPG. That's ignoring "non-core books".

That's because DTRPG doesn't do any curation of what's a core book and what isn't. The "core book" filter is nigh useless.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That's because DTRPG doesn't do any curation of what's a core book and what isn't. The "core book" filter is nigh useless.

I always assumed they were the books for my abs.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So... we're on page 100.

All the confusion cleared up?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's not even close to a 3+ on a d20 for 3PP to prevail.

pretend for a second it is... now think like a gamer.

You have a trap, you can on a 3+ get past it... but you need to use up a bunch of spell slots and some items to get that to a 3+ (aka spend money) if you fail you TPK the entire game... OR you could try to go around.

We all know how dice like to come up 1s at the wrong moment...

Now remember THAT is just a game, these are real people putting real money on the line.

 

[Maxperson]

pretend for a second it is... now think like a gamer.

You have a trap, you can on a 3+ get past it... but you need to use up a bunch of spell slots and some items to get that to a 3+ (aka spend money) if you fail you TPK the entire game... OR you could try to go around.

We all know how dice like to come up 1s at the wrong moment...

Now remember THAT is just a game, these are real people putting real money on the line.

Sure, but I think you've lost track of the conversation.

We were discussing whether putting irrevocable in OGL 1.0a would make a difference to 3PP. I argued that considering that people are currently arguing for just that, that it would make a difference. @mamba argued that in OGL 1.0a perpetual = irrevocable. It doesn't. It doesn't even come close to equaling irrevocable.

Fast forward to hypothetical situations where OGL 1.0a is tried in court. He's saying that as it currently stands it's a 3 or higher in favor of perpetual being found to mean irrevocable. It isn't. It's not even close to that. His point is what you are saying, that as gamers that 1 or 2 is too much, but his point is lost as it's closer to 50/50 than 90% in favor of 3PP which is why we have so much panic right now. My point is that if you put irrevocable into the OGL, it never sees court and many 3PP would take solace in that and continue to create content.

 

[Thomas Shey]

That's because DTRPG doesn't do any curation of what's a core book and what isn't. The "core book" filter is nigh useless.

Even if you tossed 90% of those--and that actually seems excessive IME--that would leave a hell of a lot of game lines. You see a handful every single week.

 

[mamba]

My point is that if you put irrevocable into the OGL, it never sees court and many 3PP would take solace in that and continue to create content.

and my point is that it still would go to court because WotC is not revoking it, they are de-authorizing it. They used that word for a reason (guess which one…), so adding ‘irrevocable’ would not have made a difference.
This is not really about the merit of their claim, it is about being big enough to scare everyone away

Glad you remember where we started before we drifted into probabilities

 

[CapnZapp]

So far, everything is just saber-rattling. Until the sabers are drawn and swung, this is just an unfriendly conversation when friendly conversations were what had proceeded it for decades.



What the courts say is extremely important because this is a legal matter. I understand clearly that you disagree, but right now everyone is "waiting and seeing" because not a single legally-binding action has been taken regarding a legal matter.

Even those who are making alternative plans are waiting and seeing, for once things are settled and determined and the uncertainty is resolved the OGL 1.0a license will be used again to access the valuable OGC that has been released under it. Of course, I could be wrong and the court decides in a way that kills the OGL forever. That's always a possibility, but I think it highly doubtful.

joe b.

Eh, you might want to look around you. You're the only one still in the play garden - everybody else has left.

Nobody is willing to risk the future of their plans on what a court is saying - especially since WotC has so clearly shown itself to be hostile to the idea to continued peaceful coexistence; even if the courts decide clearly against WotC, that victory would still be pyrrhic.

It's dead, Jim.

 

[Maxperson]

and my point is that it still would go to court because WotC is not revoking it, they are de-authorizing it. They used that word for a reason, so adding ‘irrevocable’ would not have made a difference

Glad you remember where we started before we drifted into probabilities

So perpetual and irrevocable have meanings in law. Deauthorize does not. If it were irrevocable, WotC would not go to court because deauthorize = attempt to revoke. Going in front of a judge and attempting to revoke an irrevocable license by saying you're deauthorizing it instead would probably get you laughed out of court.

"Really officer, I wasn't speeding. I was streaking down the street."

It took me a while to remember, but I got there!