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WotC Hasbro's CEO Reports OGL-Related D&D Beyond Cancellations Had Minimal Impact

Hasbro held a quarterly earnings call recently in which CEO Chris Cocks (who formerly ran WotC before being promoted) indicated that the OGL controversy had a "comparatively minor" impact on D&D's revenue due to D&D Beyond subscription cancellations. He also noted that D&D grew by 20% in 2022 (Magic: the Gathering revenues grew by an astonishing 40% in Quarter 4!) WotC as a whole was up 22%...

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Hasbro held a quarterly earnings call recently in which CEO Chris Cocks (who formerly ran WotC before being promoted) indicated that the OGL controversy had a "comparatively minor" impact on D&D's revenue due to D&D Beyond subscription cancellations. He also noted that D&D grew by 20% in 2022 (Magic: the Gathering revenues grew by an astonishing 40% in Quarter 4!)

WotC as a whole was up 22% in Q4 2022.

Lastly, on D&D, we misfired on updating our Open Gaming License, a key vehicle for creators to share or commercialize their D&D inspired content. Our best practice is to work collaboratively with our community, gather feedback, and build experiences that inspire players and creators alike - it's how we make our games among the best in the industry. We have since course corrected and are delivering a strong outcome for the community and game.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
yes, this was definitely not something with daily meetings. Still, I am curious who got this idea on the table…


and that is where you are losing me ;)

I agree that given the evidence / actions, they must have considered it a reasonable deal. I do agree that they are not idiots.

I do not agree that a reasonable person who did their ‘homework’ would have considered this to be a good deal given the circumstances. That is why I said they acted highly irrational, you cannot be that and reasonable at the same time…
Legal homework and general industry practice.homework, I'm sure was done. I can see how a reasonable person, who did due dilligenxe as far as theybcould see, would be akepticL of hobbyist takes on the OGL amd think the actual companies would consider it a good deal. Clearly wrong in the particular case, but not insane as far as normal human thought processes go.
 

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mamba

Legend
Legal homework and general industry practice.homework, I'm sure was done. I can see how a reasonable person, who did due dilligenxe as far as theybcould see, would be akepticL of hobbyist takes on the OGL amd think the actual companies would consider it a good deal.
So the D&D creative team is just a bunch of hobbyists in your telling?

I agree that they would not listen to 5 random dedicated, longtime D&D players who had concerns over this (and maybe in hindsight you should have even then…), but that is not what happened.
 

Saracenus

Always In School Gamer
I think we can all agree that we just don't really know the actual motivations that drove WotC to put out the 1.1 "OGL." We saw the document. We saw the result. We heard the PR. But honestly we are trying to make patterns and connections from very thin information.

Here is what I think went down (this not stated at fact).
1) OGL discussions did start about 2 years ago. I am pretty sure there for factions within the company that wanted different things from a new OGL and for a long time there was no consensus to propel the idea out of the working group.

2) C-Suite Execs at WotC are relatively fresh and not from Hasbro or a division under Hasbro. They are primarily coming from outside and have experience in the game space, but primarily digital. WotC wants this experience because they see digital and media as huge areas of growth that they can use to increase revenue. A huge amount of money is being now spent on developing these new areas of potential growth.

NOTE: For three, I am dividing it because I don't which came first.

3a) Then Hasbro hands down a new directive that changes the way that various segments of that massive entity are going to receive or not receive attention and resources, i.e. the 1 Billion in revenue metric by segment (Magic is a segment, D&D is another), not by the Division. Suddenly there is a new benchmark they have to hit if their digital and media dreams for the D&D brand are to stay alive.

3b) Either before or after that directive Alta-Fox's "Free The Wizards" campaign starts and ends when they fail to get their hand picked board members elected. This brings a ton of investor attention to WotC that previously it happily flew under the radar of. WotC is the secret cash cow driving Hasbro profit (but note, not revenue).

4) Under scrutiny and in immediate need to show forward progress towards 1 billion in revenue the WotC C-Suite folks start looking for ways to increase revenue now! The media and digital initiatives are currently cost centers with no track record of what the Return On Investment (ROI) is going to be.

These are the forces propelling the folks at the WotC executive level. They answer to Hasbro and Hasbro answers to the stockholders.

We don't know what shape or form the 2 year OGL project was at when that came into the Execs sights. We don't know who was championing the stuff that was already there and what was tacked on when that project suddenly was put on the front burner.

We do know that Kyle Brink kept his creative team insulated from the goings on from above (which is his job) but failed to advocate for or bring forward voices that had insight into the D&D community and culture. So an critically important bit of information is missing for the Executives in their decision making.

Add two plus years of COVID into the mix. Processes are scrambled to meet the emergent needs to keep their workforce healthy and working on products. There is less intermingling between people because they are not in the building. Those informal relationships are critical and they were disrupted.

Now I am not saying there were not individual bad actors in this whole mess that were pushing their agendas to the fore during this time of tumult. We just don't know. Frankly until the dust settles and eventually a history is written we are not likely to know (this all predicated on a it being written).

Until I get something more substantial on what was going on internally, to me the OGL mess is explained best by a cascading series of failures (pressure, ignorance, breakdowns in communication, and yes, some straight up stupidity) was the root cause of this disaster.

Hell, this might even be the "truth." But I only have the information at hand and my best guess based upon my experience in the corporate world. So take it with the huge, heaping grains of salt that I am giving to all the other hot takes in this thread.

Some edits made for grammar and clarity.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
So the D&D creative team is just a bunch of hobbyists in your telling?

I agree that they would not listen to 5 random dedicated, longtime D&D players who had concerns over this (and maybe in hindsight you should have even then…), but that is not what happened.
Being professional game designers is their job, not licensing deals. When considering a revision to an IP license offering, I can understand their opinions being taken with a grain of salt. It wasn't the right move here, but it doesn't seem delusional that their voice were initially overriden. That their voice eventually won out says that the decision makers weren't delusional...when confronted with hard facts.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
We do know that Kyle Brink kept his creative team insulated from the goings on from above (which is his job) but failed to advocate or bring forward voices that have insight to the community. So an important bit of information is missing for the Executives in their decision making.
It's also probably significant that Brink was fresh in his role when this really started moving fast: he was a new guy here.
 

mamba

Legend
Being professional game designers is their job, not licensing deals. When considering a revision to an IP license offering, I can understand their opinions being taken with a grain of salt.
I don’t think their input was so much on the licensing terms but on the reaction of 3pps and the community. That is where they would have contributed most and known most (with some of them coming from 3pps and/or having worked in this space for some time)

I guess the strategic mistake there was that Kylie shielded them from it and as a consequence reduced / removed important input.

That their voice eventually won out says that the decision makers weren't delusional...when confronted with hard facts.
delusions can only withstand reality for so long… eventually reality wins out ;)

I give them credit for reacting fast and decisive, we have plenty of cases where delusions are defended as long as possible
 

Oofta

Legend
Well, the malicious part is unnecessarily attempting to destroy a bunch of people's livelihoods in the pursuit of a quick buck by betraying what was the social contract of the community.

This is a prime example of the assumption of Ill intent. Because you assume they were "unnecessarily attempting to destroy..." therefore they were being malicious and betraying what was the social contract of the community.

Couple of problems. Your claim of intent has no basis in fact that we know of. Second, there is no social contract. D&D is not some crowd-sourced shared community, what community exists is there because WOTC decided to open up parts of their IP. I'll agree that it was stupid (or perhaps just poor wording in OGL 1.1, I don't know if the intent was ever clarified) that the OGL 1.0a was revoked for existing materials.

But I don't make any assumptions one way or another about the motivation or logic. I wasn't there and neither were you.

Ultimately though I just don't see the need for ongoing angst over this. They listened, they reversed course, put the core rules in CC. They exceeded the demands. That doesn't sound like something a "malicious" company would do. A large bureaucracy where the whole thing was handle clumsily but eventually fixed is more likely.
 


This is a prime example of the assumption of Ill intent. Because you assume they were "unnecessarily attempting to destroy..." therefore they were being malicious and betraying what was the social contract of the community.

Couple of problems. Your claim of intent has no basis in fact that we know of. Second, there is no social contract. D&D is not some crowd-sourced shared community, what community exists is there because WOTC decided to open up parts of their IP. I'll agree that it was stupid (or perhaps just poor wording in OGL 1.1, I don't know if the intent was ever clarified) that the OGL 1.0a was revoked for existing materials.

But I don't make any assumptions one way or another about the motivation or logic. I wasn't there and neither were you.

Ultimately though I just don't see the need for ongoing angst over this. They listened, they reversed course, put the core rules in CC. They exceeded the demands. That doesn't sound like something a "malicious" company would do. A large bureaucracy where the whole thing was handle clumsily but eventually fixed is more likely.

You don't need to make assumptions about motivation or logic there: I'm just stating facts.
  1. They were taking an unnecessary action. No matter how you want to argue it, I think it's pretty obvious that anyone who has any sense of the community that these actions were utterly and completely unnecessary. This is, to me, inarguable. They were nonsensical at best, and deliberately harmful at worst. If you want to argue that they were necessary, then feel free: I'd love to see someone try.

  2. It was going to destroy the community built up around it. This is also inarguable, especially given what their intended changes were. Again, this has nothing to do with intent, but actual action. The road to Baator are paved with good intentions, after all, though I honestly fail discern anything resembling a "good intention" with this stuff.
Beyond that, I don't need to make too many assumptions because, at the very least, we can be reasonably sure that they were informed of what their actions would do. We know that Kyle Brink was at the table. There's no way they didn't know what their actions would do. Either they foolish thought the very obvious wouldn't happen, or that they were okay with the fallout. Either way that doesn't paint a pretty picture. With corporations trying to make a lot of money, I typically default to the latter, but a combination of both is fully possible.

What I don't see the need for is the defense of Wizards from the "Why do you 'trust' corporations' crowd. Every time I point out that it's a pretty direct line from pursuing profit to destroying the 3PP market, people say I'm judging intent without reason, but then they turn around and say "Obviously this was just ignorance and a mistake!", which is also ascribing intent! These defenses want to forgive Wizards for pursuing profit, but also suddenly put in a bunch of benign intent into their actions: they're just trying to defend their brand, they just have a bunch of new people who didn't know what they were really doing, this is all them defending themselves against Disney and Meta, etc.

You can't tell me to not assume things and then suddenly default to the most innocent explanations despite the fact that, through the Kyle Brink interviews, we can see the intent there. They didn't need to make the royalties threshold as low as they did, but they managed to fight through pushback against those things. You don't need to remove the OGL unless you want to hurt 3PPs. Their design of 1.1, how they went about it (trying to pressure 3PPs over the holiday season when the fewest people would be paying attention), their VTT policy (Which multiple people have basically conceded already is designed to hurt other VTTs)... I'm not sure what else I can say to this. 1.1 and the VTT policy are just so thoroughly not benign that it's hard to view them as anything other than deliberately harsh (for obvious reasons).

I might suggest that anyone in this discussion with strongly held beliefs consider why they are strongly held and why the are so reluctant to consider other views. If you didn't see it before, or if you didn't take the time to read it,

I'm aware of the Backfire Effect (and just about all the facts they mentioned, which probably lessens the impact they were going for, but it's a good list). I've been a front-seat view of it over the last... god, almost decade now given where I live. As someone whose politics have evolved quite a bit in the last 10-15 years and continue to do so, I've had to confront a lot of my older views and reexamine them.

In this case, it's not that I haven't considered the other views, I just don't find them particularly convincing. In fact, I find a lot of the "Hahaha, how can you naïvely trust corporations!" followed by "But why do you assume corporations were acting with knowledge that they'd hurt people? It could have simply been an innocent misunderstanding because they have so many new people!" to be inherently contradictory and very frustrating. Like, you can't laugh at me for having "trust" that a corporation won't do something grossly harmful and then turn around and say "How can you assume that they'd knowingly do something that would hurt people?"

Similarly, I've looked at my own view, examined it, and tried to keep it consistent. When I find stuff that doesn't fit it, I try to modify my view to fit the evidence. In this case, people aren't contradicting me, they are just saying "You don't have enough evidence for that" and I simply disagree. Which is fine for people like @mamba , because I think they have a pretty consistent view of things. The "innocent mistake" stuff, much less so. I just find it very hard (especially after Kyle has basically repeated their story multiple times in interviews) that they didn't know what they were doing: at some point, they had to be told. That they kept going after that does not have any flattering explanation.
 
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