D&D General Why a PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content is a Bad Idea

[Irlo]

I unsubbed from the other thread because I honestly do not have a positive point to make there.

But to clarify my earlier post which is referenced in the OP, I mentioned Mein Kampf as an example of an obviously problematic work that is still sold for profit.

I believe the publisher of MK in the United States donates all profits and royalties.

 

[Irlo]

I think it's a textbook definition: a very small group of people attempting to get something removed. If you look at the comments on the product page, it's full of people asking for a POD and not making complaints.

The petition in question did not suggest removal of the Orcs PDF and did not suggest replacing it with a re-written version.

 

[Hussar]

Apologies for using the Mein Kampf example. It has led to unfortunate derailment and a discussion about the example and not the underlying point.

From this point forward I would ask that readers substitute their own work that fits the point. Whether that is Birth of a Nation or the Censored 11 or whichever work you feel is appropriate.

The point is, numerous works that are racist, bigoted or otherwise objectionable are published for profit. Many without any warnings or boilerplate at all.

 

[Irlo]

There's nothing wrong about asking publishers to donate profits to suitable causes or apply more explicit notes to put the objectionable material into context. Especially if the publisher in question has made public statements in support of inclusivity.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I am fine with a disclaimer.

That coupled with information about what is inside is enough for me to take a pass. I bought a game and did not really study the cover—earlier edition of struggle of empires boardgame. I was embarrassed having it my house and I sold it. I should have looked more closely.

I think letting people know what it’s about so they can decide is good. But if people want the material I am not one to be asking for them to be denied.

Not for me is not synonymous with me asking for it to disappear.

What I don’t like though is a qualified rejection being portrayed as a tacit approval. There are multiple ideas and values at play with this discussion. It ceases to be a discussion once all but very prescriptive specific viewpoints are allowed.

That is just a statement. And ok…?

 

[SteveC]

So were you against Wizards removing the harmful Romani stereotypes from Curse of Strahd? Was that bad or good to you?

I am going to have to admit to not knowing exactly what happened with Ravenloft. I ran it using the initial 5E version and ran the Vistani as fully developed three dimensional characters. I ran the game from the perspective of everything that's happened in Ravenloft is sort of on a repeating loop with the same things happening over and over again. By virtue of the Vistani being able to leave Ravenloft, my group eventually found that they were the only group that had full agency.

Now I understand that they did a revised version, but I was done with my game by then, so I never looked at it. From what I understand that was the "revised" version. From looking at Amazon, you can still get both versions, so I don't have any problem with that. If they stopped selling the earlier version, I think it would be a similar situation to what is being requested here. I wouldn't support that. But I also don't expect anyone to care about my opinion since that's something which has already happened years ago.

Now there's no reason that every version of every game has to stay in print, but with PDFs (and you can get the original AD&D module which I've also played) I don't see why there's a need to make anything disappear.

I am anti censorship to the core, so I'm in favor of more speech and discussion, even when I don't like it. And yes, I can say that a company voluntarily removing a product isn't precisely the same thing, but I'd rather have something like James and the Giant Peach with the original text. And all of the edited versions of movies that have the naughty bits taken out, well I feel the same way, even if naughty bits aren't the reason I watch something.

I do think that this really means that WotC has no real interest in the Mystara property, otherwise they would already have made the changes to this product in the same way they did with Strahd.

 

[HectorsNemesis]

It seems the author attempted to give orcs too much culture and view point. ;-)

 

[LordEntrails]

"To avoid threadcrapping I will create a separate thread entirely devoted to posting negatively about the positive thread." is an interesting direction to go.

Thank you. I'm glad I do interesting things.

But to be fair, the moderators suggested people create a second thread if they wanted to disagree with the premise of the first thread. Kinda hard to blame people for taking the moderators suggestion to do just that.

Exactly. I think the moderators were quite tolerant in the original thread allowing intelligent discussion even though it could easily have been disallowed because of the rules around + threads.

I felt this was an important enough topic that discussion of it should not be ... hampered by the rules of + threads. I hope @Dungeonosophy takes the time to come participate in this thread. Otherwise they will not be exposed to the full breadth of the discussion on an important topic that they began.

I'd say a better comparison would be the Censored 11

Except Censored 11 has no where near the social understanding of what it is. It might be a more technical/accurate example, but it is not a familiar one, so people, like me, just have no idea what that reference is about, why it might be an example, or even what it is an example of. And most examples are not very useful if one has to go research it before they can understand the relevance of the example.

Unless you add a lot more words to your thread title I’m not participating. That other thread seems way cooler.

Not sure I can change the title, but would this be better?
"Why a PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content is a Bad Idea: Discussion of 34 year old RPGs products and asking the current IP holders to right the wrongs of the past is a Fools Errand. "
(You know that was said in humor right?)

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Does anyone actually read this thing or buy it? Like what are it's current sales like?

This could lead to more folks buying it out of spite then actually sign your petition, I've seen that often enough, including very rescently, not every battle is as united as the fight over the OGL.

 

[LordEntrails]

This could lead to more folks buying it out of spite then actually sign your petition, I've seen that often enough, including very rescently, not every battle is as united as the fight over the OGL.

If I didn't have enough on my list of fun things to do, I would strongly consider buying it myself just so I could see how bad it is. Don't have a clue how that's helping the petition creator's cause...