What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Dannyalcatraz]

There has been a movement to remove controversial content from games for a long time. It has been openly discussed since the days of the Internet starting and probably was before that, but it was a much more local discussion.

By and large, the issue with controversial content isn’t the problem of slavery, bigotry and the like in and of themselves, but rather how they’re handled.

For instance: It’s one thing to include a slaveholding society in your RPG, it’s quite another to have the slaves depicted as happy with their lot in life or illustrated in ways that mimic RW racist imagery.

It’s also problematic to whitewash cultures when you’re trying to include them in your game. The 2Ed full color Caucasian pharaoh and queen as a splash page in the Egyptian pantheon not only eliminated the ethnicity of those who should have been there, it also put the white rulers atop a culture that unquestionably practiced slavery.

 

[Umbran]

I don't think it's unreasonable to say "hey, there was this cool setting under B/X, 1E, 2E, 3E ... I'd like to play that using the current rules."

I wasn't claiming such would be unreasonable. I was merely noting an apparent contrast. It does raise the question of why WotC should redo old material, rather than seek out new opportunities.

It seems that WotC is most interested in doing light work in old settings - Spelljammer, Ravenloft, and Dragonlance, for example, are not really full treatments of their originals, but are enough to play one largish adventure within, which the GM could extend if they wanted. I suspect play patterns have changed over time, such that this is a more appealing offering than what some of us consider a full setting product.

 

[MGibster]

For instance: It’s one thing to include a slaveholding society in your RPG, it’s quite another to have the slaves depicted as happy with their lot in life or illustrated in ways that mimic RW racist imagery.

Do you have any examples of games where they've depicted slaves as happy with their lot?

I wasn't claiming such would be unreasonable. I was merely noting an apparent contrast. It does raise the question of why WotC should redo old material, rather than seek out new opportunities.

I'm with you on this one. Dark Sun had its chance in the 1990s, let's do something different.

 

[Alzrius]

It’s also problematic to whitewash cultures when you’re trying to include them in your game. The 2Ed full color Caucasian pharaoh and queen as a splash page in the Egyptian pantheon not only eliminated the ethnicity of those who should have been there

I always thought they were Ptolemaic pharaohs.

 

[SteveC]

By and large, the issue with controversial content isn’t the problem of slavery, bigotry and the like in and of themselves, but rather how they’re handled.

For instance: It’s one thing to include a slaveholding society in your RPG, it’s quite another to have the slaves depicted as happy with their lot in life or illustrated in ways that mimic RW racist imagery.

It’s also problematic to whitewash cultures when you’re trying to include them in your game. The 2Ed full color Caucasian pharaoh and queen as a splash page in the Egyptian pantheon not only eliminated the ethnicity of those who should have been there, it also put the white rulers atop a culture that unquestionably practiced slavery.

I just really have to question this. First, as someone in a very progressive part of the country, I hear about requests to simply remove content on problematic issues quite frequently. Paizo discussed removing slavery from any future APs although I believe they eventually walked it back. I am engaged in other role playing boards where issues like this come up all the time. I don't want to make the mods concerned about problematic "cross boards conflict" that's all I feel comfortable saying about it.

But beyond that: I have never seen a traditional RPG that presents issues like slavery and bigotry in a positive light. Yes, I know there are some, and I think we're better off not mentioning them. In Dark Sun, the Dragon Empire and the slavery it practices are the bad guys who you're trying to overthrow or punch in the face. They are like the bad guys in Indiana Jones films.

As far as the pharaoh picture, I haven't seen it but I'll just agree with you: making people from Egypt not look like people from Egypt is just stupid.

I get that we have people who want to represent slavery with historical accuracy. I also get that there are people who don't want problematic content in their games at all. I just want to punch slavers in the face and free Athas.

 

[billd91]

By and large, the issue with controversial content isn’t the problem of slavery, bigotry and the like in and of themselves, but rather how they’re handled.

I think that's one issue, but I think it misses a growing issue with certain kinds of controversial content. There's a vocal and, I believe, increasing segment of the market that looks negatively at certain issues, no matter how they're handled, and wants to have none of them. And when a significant aspect of a company's marketing is directed toward growing segments of the market more likely to harbor those feelings, it would be an act of foolishness or even stupidity to include that controversial content. Paizo learned that lesson on a few topics from Erastil's male chauvinism to Folca the sex abuse daemon to slavery's position in adventures set in Golarion. It's kind of hard to point to efforts to increase the inclusivity of the game when you're unnecessarily pushing them away with certain products.
WotC appears to have learned that lesson with the hadozee and is applying it to the question of trotting out an update of Dark Sun.

 

[Alzrius]

First, as someone in a very progressive part of the country, I hear about requests to simply remove content on problematic issues quite frequently. Paizo discussed removing slavery from any future APs although I believe they eventually walked it back.

I hadn't heard anything about them walking it back; my understanding was they were no longer going to mention/reference/acknowledge slavery in Golarion whatsoever, and that was their last word on the subject.

 

[SteveC]

I hadn't heard anything about them walking it back; my understanding was they were no longer going to mention/reference/acknowledge slavery in Golarion whatsoever, and that was their last word on the subject.

That's what I heard as well, but before posting I googled it to avoid it if they have walked it back and it seems they have. I honestly don't know what the case is so I kind of hedged on it.

 

[Alzrius]

That's what I heard as well, but before posting I googled it to avoid it if they have walked it back and it seems they have.

Would you mind posting the link? I can't seem to find anything subsequent to late December, 2021, when they made the initial announcement about no longer using slavery as a topic in their content.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Do you have any examples of games where they've depicted slaves as happy with their lot?

Slaves happy with their lot strikes me as a creepy mind control vibe.